SIL said I need her "permission" to "use"

amother

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 3:16 pm

grin wrote:

amother wrote:

OP here. Thank you all for your posts! Some points:

As to "giving in" for the sake of peace - you can always say that for everything, right? At some point, if someone makes an exceedingly unreasonable request (and it wasn't a request - it was a DEMAND!) then I would say I would be entirely right to say NO.

Possibly if she would have worded it like this, I would be more inclined to give in to her mishegas: "wow, you're pregnant! We're so happy for you! I have this hangup but can I be so bold as to ask that you not name your daughter Shoshana? As the parents you can certainly do what you want, but I just wanted to put this request on the table since it's so important to me." Then maybe I could forgive her hangups, since yes, I have my hangups as well. But to DEMAND that I ask permission as if she owns the name? Just makes it harder for me to give in for the sake of peace when she's so obnoxious.

yes, it is hard to be nice to obnoxious people, but it's so much more important and worthwhile. After all, if she weren't so obnoxious, she'd probably forgive and make up afterwards readily as well, so you wouldn't have to worry about too much.

so can you be more mature than she? and again, is this really worth the fight that may develop form it?

I actually resent references that I'm doing this to be petty. Or to "show her" that she can't control me. If I would go ahead and use the name, it's because I like the name, not to try to make a point or to prove anything. How is wanting to use a certain name an immaturity??? And if a fight does develop, well, you can't fix stupid.

grin

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 3:27 pm

amother wrote:

grin wrote:

amother wrote:

excuse me for not making myself clear enough - I didn't mean ch'v to say that you wanting the name is immature. Yes, she is being immature - but can you find within yourself the gadlus to rise above her pettiness and give in merely for the sake of peace, even though you're right?

as far as "you can't fix stupid" - would you rather be right and yet have a fight? shalom becomes admirable and commendable davka when it comes at a price.

AlwaysGrateful

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 3:33 pm

grin wrote:

amother wrote:

This.

1Life2Live

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 3:46 pm

luvinlife wrote:

This is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. You name your child what you like . Op you are not doing anything wrong..it's your child..you do what you decide. by the way I luv the name shoshana:)

I agree with this. Sounds like your SIL is immature and if your dauughter's name didn't bother her something else would. I'm curious what your relationship is like though. Is she usually an understanding person or does she always make these silly demands? If the latter, I wouldn't really care what she thinks.

black sheep

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 5:08 pm

AlwaysGrateful wrote:

grin wrote:

amother wrote:

This.

no, sorry I don't agree. it is not "so much more important" to be nice to obnoxious people. in fact, OP you are right that if she would have approached it the way you presented it might be something to consider, but since she just demanded you ask her permission, acting as if she has the "rights" to that name, tells you everything you need to know about this particular request: that it is obnoxious. and it is good policy to ignore the requests of obnoxious people.

amother

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 8:35 pm

black sheep wrote:

AlwaysGrateful wrote:

grin wrote:

amother wrote:

This.

OP: this just speaks to me; sorry to all the detractors. To be told by someone who lives in her own bubble world that I must cater to her whim is one thing, but then to be guilted into going along with those whims by others is yet another slap in the face! I appreciate all your responses but - and I only realize this now - I feel she is so fundamentally wrong, and about something so permanent, that I should go with my gut which is to disregard her. As to how about doing that - thanks for all your ideas ladies! I especially like - saying we named after someone else, or - acting astonished that she wasn't kidding (gosh - hope she's not on this forum!).

ellie23

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 8:53 pm

I honestly dont see the issue here. your sil is being obnoxious and arrogant. why would you even respond to her? name the baby the name that you would like and that is that. it is none of her darn business what nzme you give your child and therefore it should not be discussed between you and her any longer. your baby should be healthy, born in good time! and you should enjoy your precious little girl and the beautiful name of your choice- period! it really is that simple!

p.s. if you do name her shoshana and your sil makes a comment about it to you- I think you should just tell her " I am not comfortable discussing this topic with you." thats it. she will get the point and not mention it. and if she really makes it so big in her mind that her relationship with you is affected, there really is nothing you can do except to be polite and welcoming to her while simultaneously not allowing this topic to be discussed. these are YOUR boundaries as it is your child- like I said- noone elses business. and if she cant respect your boundaries when it comes to this, I czan garrantee you that in the future, something else will come up where she sticks her nose where is doesnt belong and then that will come between you. teach her how she can talk to you and behave toward you. be firm, and unapologetic about your bounderies- you wont be sorry!

AlwaysGrateful

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 9:22 pm

amother wrote:

To be told by someone who lives in her own bubble world that I must cater to her whim is one thing, but then to be guilted into going along with those whims by others is yet another slap in the face!

I'm sorry that I slapped you in the face. I have many annoying, "obnoxious" people in my life. Some are older relatives -- so I guess they have the excuse of age. Some are different from me hashkafically and do not respect my hashkafos and boundaries for religious reasons. And one is actually obnoxious due to a medical problem that she's dealing with right now.

It's hard. I hear you. But I truly try to think of it (at my better times, when I'm being objective) as "Why is Hashem putting me through this?" Sure, if you have someone that is severely overstepping boundaries to the point where you would have to do something that you believe is wrong, then it's worth stepping up to the plate and stating your boundaries, even if it will cause hard feelings. But think about it. Weigh each side. Think -- "Is this WORTH it?" If your sil tells you to change the way that you're raising your kids, that's where you put up boundaries. My chinuch methods (assuming I strongly believe in them) are very high on the priority list, and if I think that her chinuch methods are inferior, then I would politely but firmly tell her that I respect her opinion, but this is what I am going to do because I believe that it's the best choice for me and my family. Same for any other "high priority" that she would want me to change.

But little things? If my sil tells me she really wants me to come to her birthday party, and it's on a night when I'm tired and would rather not go, I need to weigh the two sides. Will not going make me a tired, ineffective Mommy the next day? Will it ruin my shalom bayis or affect my professional repuation or...something else that I would find important? If it's just a matter of my own convenience, then maybe it's worth putting my own happiness aside in order to make her happy, even if there's no reason I should "have" to go.

Maybe it's just a matter of priorities. To me, naming a child is important. But naming her "my favorite name" isn't high enough on my list of priorities to upset someone over. Hey, neither of my kids' names are there because I loved the sound of them. They have those names because I knew it would mean a lot to people in my family or dh's family and I liked the names enough to use them. So again, maybe on your list of priorities, "naming my child the name of my dreams" is really high. To me, it's a small detail that seems big at the time but fades later on, assuming you don't actively dislike the name you've chosen. So to me, I'd be willing to give up that little detail because causing discord in the family isn't worth it.

That's all.

amother

Wed, Jun 13 2012, 10:33 pm

precious wrote:

Your SIL said you should "ask permission". She did NOT deny permission. (right??)
maybe she just wants to be warned in advance.

anyways, I agree with all those who say you have all rights to name your child whatever you want, but think about the long term effects. Do you get along now or have nothing to do with eachother?

I feel like I'm going in circles on this forum. No, she did not (yet) deny permission, but it's not within her right to demand that I get it to begin with. I bristle at the thought of submitting the right to name my child to her. This right is intensely personal and meaningful and a SIL should have no say in the subject whatsoever.

The long term affect is that I want the right to name my baby with the name as I see fit. Any fallout is HER PROBLEM. To use an exaggerated example, if you had a crazy relative that demanded all sorts of things and if you don't listen there will be long-term repercussions, you would just ignore her wishes because they were so off-base, right? And not feel guilty for any fallout because SHE'S the crazy one, right?

That's how I see it here (now that I read everyone's opinions, I am certainly ending off more definitively than how I started).

We don't live near each other, but we call each other every once in a while to touch base. If we lived near each other we probably wouldn't get along. Wink

HindaRochel

Thu, Jun 14 2012, 1:39 am

amother wrote:

OP here. Thank you all for your posts! Some points:

My very unscientific poll (I.e. asking random people) tells me that most frum people would not name after living parents or grandparents (Ashkenazim, that is). But husband's brother's sisters? C'mon, that is taking it too far, sorry. Especially a common name! Where does one draw the line? What if my DH and I both come from large families and you're "passeling" every brother, sister, sisterinlaw, brotherinlaw, and kids - just from immediate family alone you could knock out 50 names off the bat! So I say - living parents and grandparents (maybe aunts and uncles of the PARENTS) and leave it at that.

I would not. I would also not be greatly offended if someone would. But especially a close relative, I would ask first since there is an idea in the Ashkenazi world that you name a person for a dead family relative. Since many people do name after sisters/brothers etc who have passed away, then YES I would ask.

And in any case, this is not the situation in your house, or at least you haven't stated that. So don't give false reasons why you can't name your child something else.

Quote:

As to "giving in" for the sake of peace - you can always say that for everything, right? At some point, if someone makes an exceedingly unreasonable request (and it wasn't a request - it was a DEMAND!) then I would say I would be entirely right to say NO.

Yes, you can say no. However poorly worded however, this wasn't an exceedingly unreasonable request given the concept that children are named for those who have already died.

Quote:

Possibly if she would have worded it like this, I would be more inclined to give in to her mishegas: "wow, you're pregnant! We're so happy for you! I have this hangup but can I be so bold as to ask that you not name your daughter Shoshana? As the parents you can certainly do what you want, but I just wanted to put this request on the table since it's so important to me." Then maybe I could forgive her hangups, since yes, I have my hangups as well. But to DEMAND that I ask permission as if she owns the name? Just makes it harder for me to give in for the sake of peace when she's so obnoxious.

Lots of things make it harder to give in for the sake of peace, but that doesn't change the fact that you need to consider how valuable peace is to you. If the name is more important than your SIL feelings then that is your answer.

There is no reason you can't say to her "I really am angry with you for the way you phrased your request. I am honoring it only because I think Shalom Bayit is more important than giving my daughter your name, but because of the way you phrased things I almost decided to name my child the same name in any case.

Um, does your dh get to give an opinion?