Teachers end of year expectations

amother

Sun, Jul 01 2012, 2:08 am

I just read a letter to the editor in last weeks Flatbush journal where a teacher lamented the fact that she invested long hours educating without so much as a gift or a thank you note.
Although we traditionally give both, something about this letter bothered me.
Nowadays, children have numerous teachers, not including extra curricular educators. Multiply those by half a dozen kids and you're talking countless notes, gifts (even minor ones), and debt.
I doubt public school teachers walk around offended that their students families didn't give a thank you note, so why yeshiva educators?
I understand that this letter is from one person, but it just seems like it's the popular opinion.
We, as a community, are paying more money than we can afford to, helping our kids with double the homework load that public school kids are assigned. I think it's presumptuous to complain about this.
Why not put the focus back on the child and say "I'm so glad I had an opportunity to educate your child"?

flowerpower

Sun, Jul 01 2012, 2:23 am

The teacher should not expect anything at the end of the year. But one thing that is a nice gesture is to write on the last mitzvah note something nice or send a simple thank you card writing something inside. My neighbor was marking her students finals two weeks ago and showed me one because I was curious what her tests looked like. That student had written on the bottom of the paper how much she enjoyed the lessons throughout the year. It just shows that she is well taught by her parents!

smss

Sun, Jul 01 2012, 2:27 am

I think this was discussed before and someone said it doesn't have to be a gift but at LEAST a thank you note.

For sure it takes time...so did everything they did for your kid all year.

If the parents all go in together to get a gift card or something like that, each parent doesn't have to be spending so much money and the teacher still gets a nice gift.

(P.S. How do you know she was one of the extracurriculars?? Maybe she was the main teacher!)

amother

Sun, Jul 01 2012, 2:46 am

I think you misunderstood.
I never stated she was an extracurricular teacher. There was no such information provided.
I do think a thank you note is a nice gesture. However, the idea that a teacher is so deeply offended by the lack of show of appreciation, that is what bothers me. Why is it necessary?
Forgive me for my crassness, but this is a "service" that's paid for.
Maybe it's the expectation and ensuing response that offends me.
Class gifts seem more traditional in lower grades, less so in older ones. I find it's left to the parent's discrepancy.

seeker

Sun, Jul 01 2012, 2:46 am

I interact with quite a lot of non-Jewish public school teachers and just by the way, it is in fact pretty common to express appreciation to the teachers. I don't think they would ever expect it of every single kid, but definitely they would be surprised and hurt if nobody gave any kind of thanks at the end of the year. Gifts you can forgo if the expense is the issue, but some expression of appreciation is definitely due.

I agree that it's presumptuous to "expect" it, especially of everyone, but I also think that it's something parents should do whether or not the teacher is expecting it. Also, if the teacher was complaining because they received NO thanks, or thanks from one out of 25 students, then it suggests more of an endemic problem and a letter to the editor of a community publication is a fine and appropriate way to air it out.

If you get a thank-you in person or via a note from 20 out of 25 parents, then I'd assume the remaining 5 are either having an overwhelming life period, not tuned in to these etiquette things, or simply forgot. But if they all forgot, I'd seriously wonder what is happening to our school's parent body.

I'm not sure what you're meaning by "extra curricular educators" but in my response above I'm talking about the main teachers as well as anyone who had a specific connection to your kid (e.g. special ed teacher for a kid with special ed needs)

amother

Sun, Jul 01 2012, 2:48 am

while part of me feels that they are paid for their job just like any other job, hakaras hatov is for what you get, not what the person did specifically for you. (like the bus driver is driving anyways,he doesn't care, but you still benefit). Teachers are being mechanech our children, which is really our job. So there needs to be hakaras hatov, I'm not sure how that translates into action, but when some ppl wanted to buy a gift for my boss I didn't feel the same need.

smss

Sun, Jul 01 2012, 2:50 am

amother wrote:

It could be you're right that she shouldn't expect it - but I don't think you're right that we don't have to do it.
Basic basic hakaras hatov. Even if someone IS being paid for their services we still owe them a thank you.

seeker

Sun, Jul 01 2012, 2:51 am

Oh, and I don't think I know of a single teacher that just provides a "service that's paid for." When you go to a store and have a personable, attentive server, do you not say "thank you" because it's a service that's paid for? I'm not even talking about waiters where a tip is an expected part of their income, but where I come from we say "Thank you" to bus drivers, pharmacists, security guards, etc. How much more so for someone who provides an especially personal "service."

seeker

Sun, Jul 01 2012, 3:14 am

amother wrote:

Aren't mishloach manos, Chanukah gifts, etc part of the thank you??
Why does it have to be multiple times a year??

I'd say if a parent sent a gesture of thanks at Chanukah time and some other time later in the year, I wouldn't feel neglected if they didn't do it at the end of the year. I didn't read the letter OP is referring to, but having heard other teachers (both frum/yeshiva as well as general public school) rant on this topic, I'd assume the mussar is aimed at those parents who never express any appreciation to the teacher at all. Even a phone call is worlds better than nothing. In nursery school you might get parents picking kids up themselves and saying "thank you" as they go, but I teach older kids so even that never happens; it is entirely possible for me to spend an entire year working with the kid (and don't talk to me about paid service, I sometimes lose sleep at night thinking about how to better help my students) and never hear from the parents at all. I touch base a few times through the year to keep in touch and make sure things are going OK from their point of view, but at the end of the year the kids just walk out of the room without a second thought and the parents are nowhere in the picture, our final communication is the report card with my warm wishes in the comment zone. I never asked for anything more but now that I'm reading this thread I have to say I agree, it would definitely be nice to receive a note, a phone call, a something, anything from the parents to say "I appreciate all the work you put in for my child since September."

smss

Sun, Jul 01 2012, 3:16 am

amother wrote:

I think by the time it's older grades, it's more on the kid than the parent. By the time a kid is old enough to write the thank you note themselves, they should.

amother

Sun, Jul 01 2012, 3:17 am

I'm wondering of those who don't write or give, would you be willing to tell why you don't?
Is it an oversight, preoccupation with other responsibilities, concern of inability to give properly, or a difference of opinion as to whether it needs to be given in the first place?
I think for me it's the second and third, mostly.

seeker

Sun, Jul 01 2012, 3:28 am

smss wrote:

amother wrote:

I think by the time it's older grades, it's more on the kid than the parent. By the time a kid is old enough to write the thank you note themselves, they should.

I think both. They both have thanks to give. Taking care of a child is definitely a favor to the parent as well as the child. Though in high school when you can have 20 teachers per kid per year I definitely think it is more reasonable to either only recognize those who did something special for your kid, or to go through some mass-produced PTA thing where you pay in $x to have your name computer-signed on a group card or something. Granted it's not deep, but then again how deep is the relationship anyway when most of the teachers saw your kid for 45 or 90 minutes a week. They surely deserve appreciation, but at that level it doesn't have to be in the form of personal, individual gestures from each parent.

morah

Sun, Jul 01 2012, 7:44 am

I wrote in the other thread that I'm not into the whole gift thing because it puts pressure on parents who may not have even $5 to spare (especially when there are a bunch of kids and that becomes $5 times the number of kids). But it should not be beyond your reach to express thanks in a another way- a note, or a personal thank-you. That line about "paid service" is just disgusting. I don't even know how to respond to that.

amother

Sun, Jul 01 2012, 8:41 am

Morah
It was not meant to offend you or anyone else. For that, I'm sorry.
I work in the health care field, and what I meant was that, though, a thanks is nice, I wouldn't expect anything above my paid salary. I understand your taking offense, though.
Truthfully, I'm asking, because it bothers me that I didn't do more, and yet, with all that I did do, it seems that it's becoming a burden with the expectations, rather than something I'd choose to do from the heart because I wanted to. This complaining makes me feel compelled for the wrong reasons, and that irritates me.
But, again, I am sorry that the way I said it was rude. Forgive me!