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-> Interesting Discussions
acccdac
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 Thu, Jul 26 2012, 1:00 pm
I am trying to understand something. I know I am a planner, but honestly I am also a procrastinator.
At the ages of 24 (we're the same age) my dh and I had our wills, living wills, and burial plots in order.
We did own a house at that time so we had assets, but we also had two children, and that was the most important part.
I do have to admit that I can understand not putting one together because we now have a third child and we have not updated our will. It is possible that we havent made it an urgent matter because legally with the wording of our will our dc is technically in the will even though our dc's name is not physically in the will.
How can you not have a will?
How can you not have a living will?
(I'll pass on the plots, we bought because the opportunity was good (section of the cemetery), and we werent paying tuition yet so we had "extra" funds)
Maybe I'm just morbid, but I fear leaving my kids with no parents and wanting to make their lives as simple as possible, also I would like our families to know our wishes and keep to them since we as the parents may know the best for our children.
Even life insurance, how can you not have life insurance, if you buy it at 20-30 do you know how cheap you can get a 30 year term covering a lot of money?
People consider themselves responsible people because they pay their bills on time, their tuition, sit with the children for homework, make 3 healthy meals a day, keep a clean home, earn money for their families, learn for their families, etc. Thats all good cause you're here to do it, what happens when you're not?
I would suggest that instead of buying a crib or clothes or paying for a nurse when your child has a baby you should use the money towards a lawyer and make sure your children figure this stuff out early. Also, maybe say that you'll pay for the first 3 years of a term life insurance. If one is in good health and young enough (20-30 years) if you skip a pizza dinner once a month you can cover the payment.
I know no one expects bad things to happen but if it does and one is not prepared, its SO MUCH WORSE.
of course people may come back to my post and bash and say something like "I cant even put food on my table how can I pay a lawyer?"
I put this in the Intellectual stuff forum because I want to discuss this at an intellectual level. I know that there are many things people want to do intellectually but the constraints of life down allow for them.
I am not asking people who cant feed their families to put this before food on their budgets. I am asking that before you go on a pesach program, before you spend $300+ on chanuka presents, instead of sending your kids to camp (meaning do mommy camp for just one summer - same cost), etc spend the money on your will and life insurance
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abby1776
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 2:17 pm
I dont know how people, especially people with children do not have a will. But they do. My mother in law did not have a will, and even though when she passed away, myhusband and I were in our thirties - it was an absolute nightmare - you have to go to probate court, it takes a million years. Te entire estate was not completely settled unti 11 years after she died.
Even though this situtation was awful, my father in law still does not have a will and refuses to make one, even though he had to deal with the nightmare of his wife's estate.
And my parents dont have a will even though I beg them all the time and tell them I dont care if they dont leave me a dime, just get a will so its not a mess afterwards.
My husband and I have a will.
The only thing I can think of is that people dont like to thing about death.
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Delores
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 2:27 pm
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When my parents made up their will it freaked me out but then they started telling me stories of couples who were taken advantage of because they didn't have a will when one spouse died so now I definitely see the point of a will for couples my parents' age. My husband and I never even thought of writing one because we don't own a house or have much. I imagine most couples with young kids think that if Gd forbid something should happen to them the grandparents would take care of the kids and they don't need to specify that in a will. That's definitely what I feel. My husband has a minimal life insurance policy but I guess since I am not the primary bread winner I feel I don't need to take out a policy. Am I wrong?
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amother
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 2:41 pm
We are under 30, we both have wills. We have a short term life ins plan (which I regret not signing up for full term). No we have not an extra dime, but since there are BH kids involved, this is our duty.
We would have never known about wills nor life insurance stuff, had we not watched the movie with katherine heigl & josh dumahl. (forgot the name). There you see how the baby is thrown around after the parents are in a car accident at a young age... Lehavdil lehavdil, but sure was an eye opener.
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acccdac
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 2:42 pm
| Delores wrote: | | When my parents made up their will it freaked me out but then they started telling me stories of couples who were taken advantage of because they didn't have a will when one spouse died so now I definitely see the point of a will for couples my parents' age. My husband and I never even thought of writing one because we don't own a house or have much. I imagine most couples with young kids think that if Gd forbid something should happen to them the grandparents would take care of the kids and they don't need to specify that in a will. That's definitely what I feel. My husband has a minimal life insurance policy but I guess since I am not the primary bread winner I feel I don't need to take out a policy. Am I wrong? |
I am still torn on whether or not the other spouse needs a policy. The main breadwinner for sure, but the other one I dont know, maybe just changing one's life style would be enough. Although to tell the truth I am the secondary breadwinner but I cover the my daughter's preschool, housekeeper, and extras. If I were G-d forbid to die, my dh would still need someone to clean the house, cause he cant do it and physically doenst have the time. My dd would for sure need to be in preschool since I would not be there to watch her when she's not, so that would all cost money.
In terms of parents/grandparents taking over custody, on our first draft our parents are our first choice, however on the next draft they are actually taken out as guardians. We dont think they are up for the job of watching little kids anymore. I know they would love them, but they're older and wouldnt be able to do carpool and homework and play dates. I had suggested on sis in law over the other because I know they would include my/husbands side of the family more in my children's activities.
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Sherri
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 2:53 pm
I think that people don't like to think about death. Or think about it theoretically.
Last edited by Sherri on Thu, Jul 26 2012, 2:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
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seeker
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 2:54 pm
Thanks for the PSA. I guess the main reason why I don't have a will or life insurance yet is because it seems like such an overwhelming big deal to figure out the logistics and I don't know how to go about it. We don't have many assets but I would want to make sure that whatever we do have goes straight to our children and that custody is taken care of well, too. I guess I'm just a big procrastinator but you're so right, it needs to be a priority. I guess there are just so many other, more definitely urgent things to take care of that I am always overwhelmed enough with those that I don't get up to taking care of the future.
I know that's no excuse and it really has to get done, just answering the "why not" question with brutal honesty! Thanks again for the reminder!
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amother
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 2:56 pm
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It's actually our summer project. We didn't have kids for a few years after marriage, so didn't have life insurance or a will. (Although that doesn't excuse not having a living will.) And now we have a couple of kids within a few years so gotta work on it quick! Burial plots... they're a big expense and I don't know where we want to be buried. I don't feel it's of as such emergency.
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abby1776
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 2:58 pm
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The non-working spouse definately needs a life insurance policy. I am the primary breadwinner in my family. If something happened to my DH I would have no child care. I would have to quit my job to take of my kids, handle everything in my house. How would we live. Now, my DH is not insured for as much as I am but I would still need the money to cover everything while I got my life in order before I could go back to work.
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Raisin
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 3:01 pm
we have life insurance for both of us. I think you both need insurance if you still have young kids at home.
no will otherwise. I guess we should but we really don't have much to leave. (except life insurance, which I assume automatically goes to the other spouse, or kids, I guess)
I don't know who would look after my kids in chv something would happen to us. We both come from large families so there are many possibilites. But who knows what will happen in the future? If I think one sibling would be a good choice now, their circumstances will almost certainly change.
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abby1776
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 3:05 pm
People with young children need a will that specifies gaurdainship for your children. You assume your parents will take them, but what if they cant or dont want? Or your DH assumes his parents and you assume your parents - and both of you definately dont want your sister handling it.
If its not spelled out in the will your kids could end up in foster care if Gd forbid something happend to both of you.
If you have young children you are being irresponsible by not specifically stating in your will who is to have gaurdianship and make sure the people you apppoint are ok with that responsibility.
I am not saying that this is an easy conversation to have. In fact, it took DH and I the better part of a year to figure it out and find the right people willing to be gaurdians.
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amother
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 3:17 pm
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I'm a single parent, my ex is not in the picture, and have life insurance. I wrote a will leaving my assets to my children. I designated a trustworthy close relative as guardian of my children and their property. This guardian wouldn't necessarily raise my children alone, but I trust this person to make decisions regarding their living arrangements and care. I do have relatives whom I wouldn't trust to take my children across the street, let alone raise them, so this gave me peace of mind.
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amother
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 3:31 pm
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No will because we dont have kids yet. If I remember correctly our prenup included a clause effectively willing everything to the spouse even though it stipulated that if we (g-d forbid) before being married for 10 years we each retain the money we brought into the marriage. We both have assets however one of us has a trust fund so we needed a prenup, so I guess we effectively have a prenup. Dh is 26 and I'm 24 we already plan to have one written up when a pregnancy passes the third month.
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amother
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 4:46 pm
| abby1776 wrote: | People with young children need a will that specifies gaurdainship for your children. You assume your parents will take them, but what if they cant or dont want? Or your DH assumes his parents and you assume your parents - and both of you definately dont want your sister handling it.
If its not spelled out in the will your kids could end up in foster care if Gd forbid something happend to both of you.
If you have young children you are being irresponsible by not specifically stating in your will who is to have gaurdianship and make sure the people you apppoint are ok with that responsibility.
I am not saying that this is an easy conversation to have. In fact, it took DH and I the better part of a year to figure it out and find the right people willing to be gaurdians. |
Do you know any time where this has happened? That a child with willing relatives was taken into foster care because there was no will. In the event of the death of a parent or both parents, it takes weeks to have a petition drawn up and admitted to Surrogates Court. Then you have to have a GAL appointed. Then GAL reviews. You also need a death certificate which is not instantaneous.
I wish the death certificate was issued the day my husband died because it is important to apply for SS right away. SS does not go back to the time of death. It goes to the day of application.
Most times with smaller estates without minors, a will is not necessary. The cheapest most most effective method to pass assets is through beneficiary designation. An estate potentially subject to estate taxes should be administered through a trust to avoid probate court.
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abby1776
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 4:57 pm
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How dare you hide behind a mother and tell people a Will is not necessary. I am an attorney a Will is definately necessary. You made not need an attorney to draft one - they sell forms at Staples, and there are online forms, but you definately need a Will.
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syrima
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 4:57 pm
you are right, thanks for the reminder. it was on the back burner. I think we got stuck on the guardianship. After thinking about it for a long while, I turned to DH and said, We just CAN'T DIE. NO ONE ELSE will raise our kids like we do.
It was a very sobering moment.
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amother
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 5:01 pm
| amother wrote: | | abby1776 wrote: | People with young children need a will that specifies gaurdainship for your children. You assume your parents will take them, but what if they cant or dont want? Or your DH assumes his parents and you assume your parents - and both of you definately dont want your sister handling it.
If its not spelled out in the will your kids could end up in foster care if Gd forbid something happend to both of you.
If you have young children you are being irresponsible by not specifically stating in your will who is to have gaurdianship and make sure the people you apppoint are ok with that responsibility.
I am not saying that this is an easy conversation to have. In fact, it took DH and I the better part of a year to figure it out and find the right people willing to be gaurdians. |
Do you know any time where this has happened? That a child with willing relatives was taken into foster care because there was no will. In the event of the death of a parent or both parents, it takes weeks to have a petition drawn up and admitted to Surrogates Court. Then you have to have a GAL appointed. Then GAL reviews. You also need a death certificate which is not instantaneous.
I wish the death certificate was issued the day my husband died because it is important to apply for SS right away. SS does not go back to the time of death. It goes to the day of application.
Most times with smaller estates without minors, a will is not necessary. The cheapest most most effective method to pass assets is through beneficiary designation. An estate potentially subject to estate taxes should be administered through a trust to avoid probate court. |
Other than a pour over will and to name guardianship, you want to avoid surrogates court as much as possible. Surrogates court is very expensive. It can cost as much as twenty percent of the estate. Deals can and are made to sell property at reduced rates. GALs are often the Judges cronies with little supervision., GALs cannot be sued for malpractice.
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chocolate moose
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 5:16 pm
We never made one up because at that time, we owed a lot of money for credit cards and student loans, and drawing up a will with a lawyer would have cost us 3 weeks salary.
We couldn't agree on how to allocate our assets anyway, to say nothing of what to do with the kids. We don't have any frum family. As morbid as it sounds, we felt that we wouldn't be around to witness it anyway.
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amother
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 5:17 pm
| abby1776 wrote: | | How dare you hide behind a mother and tell people a Will is not necessary. I am an attorney a Will is definately necessary. You made not need an attorney to draft one - they sell forms at Staples, and there are online forms, but you definately need a Will. |
As I answered Tova, a will is necessary to name guardianship and as a pour over for a trust. Esperti and Peterson are the acclaimed experts. I defer to them. I am not an attorney; but I used to practice in this field and I have seen estates raped which is why I am so against passing assets through Surrogates Court.
I suggest you read what they have to say.
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anon for this
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Thu, Jul 26 2012, 5:33 pm
| amother wrote: | Do you know any time where this has happened? That a child with willing relatives was taken into foster care because there was no will. In the event of the death of a parent or both parents, it takes weeks to have a petition drawn up and admitted to Surrogates Court. Then you have to have a GAL appointed. Then GAL reviews. You also need a death certificate which is not instantaneous.
I wish the death certificate was issued the day my husband died because it is important to apply for SS right away. SS does not go back to the time of death. It goes to the day of application.
Most times with smaller estates without minors, a will is not necessary. The cheapest most most effective method to pass assets is through beneficiary designation. An estate potentially subject to estate taxes should be administered through a trust to avoid probate court. |
Amother, in my experience the bolded is no longer true. I wasn't able to apply for survivor benefits without a death certificate, but benefits were calculated from the day of death, not the day of application.
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