Guest who is not great influence

amother

Wed, Aug 08 2012, 5:33 am

I don't know what to do about a guest who is not the greatest influence on my kids. He is 28, secular, he was at a BT yeshiva but dropped out and is finding himself. He's a lot of fun and loud and a bit obnoxious and the kids love him. But I don't like some of the off-color humor and when I told him that, he didn't stop. I think he just doesn't get it. Is it wrong to stop having him?

shalhevet

Wed, Aug 08 2012, 5:38 am

How old are your kids? You will get different opinions here, but my opinion is your kids always, always come first. That doesn't mean not having secular guests - but it means I wouldn't have this particular guest if you've asked (and it's something which someone non-frum should be able to understand too) and been ignored.

If your kids are young, can you invite him for a melave malka or some other time when your kids are in bed/ out, and not for Shabbos meals?

amother

Wed, Aug 08 2012, 5:49 am

shalhevet wrote:

Shalhevet, the thing is, he will stop what I tell him to stop. But then go on to the next inappropriate thing a few min. later. He's not trying to be rude on purpose. These things just probably are totally innocuous to him and I probably seem very uptight to him. He just doesn't realize we don't approve until too late.

He davka asks for Shabbos invites.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Aug 08 2012, 5:51 am

Is this a relative? Do you have him over for any specific reason? Are you connected to a yeshiva where he is studying?
I would say that if he does not stop the off color humor, to stop having him over.
Other than that though, I would just talk to your children about the fact that different jews do things differently.
My BIL is not religious at all. He has come for shabbat to our house a few times. He does not put on a kippa or bentch or go to shul. My 4 year old daughter has only asked why he does not go to shul but then right after she asked that she said "oh, he's probably too tired" and that was that. Just talk to your kids to explain things. I think being honest is always good.

DrMom

Wed, Aug 08 2012, 5:54 am

I see the fact that he did not honor your request to stop telling off-color jokes as the main problem. This alone would make me not want to invite him again, even if I didn't have kids.

I see this as secondary to the possibly confusing/problematic situation of meeting someone who may be a potential role model and who is OTD.

DrMom

Wed, Aug 08 2012, 5:56 am

amother wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

If he was studying at yeshiva, how can he not know that the things he is saying are inappropriate?

(Or maybe you are really uptight -- I don't know what topics he is discussing...)

amother

Wed, Aug 08 2012, 6:08 am

amother wrote:

For example, my DS had a banana that he put into his pocket of his pajamas. And the guest said "Is that a banana in your pocket or are you happy to see me?"

OP here again. Mind you, the kids are little and wouldn't get that at all. I don't even think the guest knew that I would get the joke. it's like he said it for his own benefit or thought he was being witty.

In the kitchen

Wed, Aug 08 2012, 6:38 am

amother wrote:

For example, my DS had a banana that he put into his pocket of his pajamas. And the guest said "Is that a banana in your pocket or are you happy to see me?"

yuck.

Even in a secular household that is not acceptable. I would avoid having him over. Sorry to be blunt about it, but I don't think you alone will be able to fix him, he needs a lot of help to say something like that to a child, completely innappropiate in ALL social circles.

amother

Wed, Aug 08 2012, 7:02 am

In the kitchen wrote:

amother wrote:

For example, my DS had a banana that he put into his pocket of his pajamas. And the guest said "Is that a banana in your pocket or are you happy to see me?"

I agree it's not acceptable. But to be fair, he did say it under his breath. Not directly to DS. And I think he thought it would go over our heads.

DrMom

Wed, Aug 08 2012, 7:24 am

amother wrote:

In the kitchen wrote:

amother wrote:

For example, my DS had a banana that he put into his pocket of his pajamas. And the guest said "Is that a banana in your pocket or are you happy to see me?"

I agree it's not acceptable. But to be fair, he did say it under his breath. Not directly to DS. And I think he thought it would go over our heads.

So he was just saying this to himself, because he's so darn witty he can't control himself?

And he thought it would be more amusing because you straight-laced frummy types wouldn't even get it?

"Yuck" is right.

Edited to add: It sounds like he is making fun of his hosts, which is reason enough not to invite him again.

causemommysaid

Wed, Aug 08 2012, 4:49 pm

absolutely not! that is a disgusting thing to say and if I had a guest that made a comment like that (to a child no less) I wouldnt have them over again.

thats not an off color joke said in adult company. that is vomit inducing sleezy comment said to an innocent child. I wouldnt want my kids around someone who says such things.

most secular people would be pretty revolted by this also.

Fox

Wed, Aug 08 2012, 5:31 pm

DrMom wrote:

I'm totally with DrMom on this. There seems to be a passive-aggressive element to his behavior. Just on a side note, if he's trying to pass himself off as a sophisticated bon vivant, I think he's failing. Referencing an old Mae West line isn't exactly evidence of urbane wit and cosmopolitan humor.

Like ElTam said, "Oh, gosh, I'm afraid we aren't able to have you right now."

zaq

Wed, Aug 08 2012, 7:43 pm

Little boys who don't play nice don't get invited back. Ditto big boys who don't play by the house rules. At 28 he knows what's not G-rated and he knows it's inappropriate for "general audiences".

Next time he invited himself I'd tell him I'm sorry, we can't have you over because despite our asking you several times, you continue to disrespect our wishes by telling off-color jokes. Your humor is offensive to us adults, and we refuse to allow our children to be exposed to it.

If he apologizes and asks for another chance, tell him you've asked him before to stop and he has betrayed your trust by repeating the offense. He has thus proven himself to be untrustworthy, and in matters pertaining to your children you cannot afford to accept his word. So long, and have a nice life.

DrMom

Wed, Aug 08 2012, 11:13 pm

Fox wrote:

DrMom wrote:

And I bet he thinks Jessica Rabbit said it first.

amother

Thu, Aug 09 2012, 1:27 am

I guess I will disagree with most posters

I am speaking as a campus Chabad House Shlucha (and since I announced who/what I am I am going to be anon)

yes he was inapropiate and he didnt stop when u asked, but I think he doesnt know what u consider inappropriate.

obviously the banana joke is off color to anyone with a brain, but as u said he muttered it to himself and didnt expect the kids to hear it/get it.

I have heard comments/jokes by young people and they really don't get what clean means.

in their circles anything goes, off color, gross, inappropriate... its all open for humor material.

you would be shocked by what comments have been said at my shabbos table, and in their mind they are censoring themselves bec of the rabbi or bec of the kids.

I would invite him over for a talk with u and ur husband, and explain to him that the comments and jokes are making u uncomfortable. and be specific about what off color means to you. dont be accusatory. just explain the outlook and atmosphere that u are bringing ur kids up in and therefore even if it "seems innocent" you would rather it not be mentioned in your house. be clear about what u mean

unless he is really not a mentch or totally obtuse, he will prob stop. if he continues saying things then def. do not invite him back.