My children are brats. Advice needed. :-(

amother

Mon, Sep 10 2012, 5:55 am

The atmosphere in my house is really unpleasant and I need help.

I have five kids. The oldest is ten. They fight with each other all day long. They whine a lot. They hit each other. They complain about everything. If they ask to do something and I say no, they throw a fit. They honestly are pretty unpleasant to be around. If they're in a good mood, they can be lovely. But the good moods are rare. Most mornings they start fighting as soon as they wake up. When I tell them to do something, they don't. I have to repeat myself a couple of times. If they're given a punishment, they argue about it. They don't listen and are so disrespectful.

One of my kids has ADHD and this makes it even harder. He has trouble with impulse control. My oldest is also difficult. She is very emotional and overreacts to almost everything. We have tried a lot of things to help her, with limited success.

I didn't grow up like this. I grew up in a calm household.

I hate that I'm living like this, and I want to break the pattern. Please help. This is something that's been getting worse and worse over the years and I am just desperate to fix it. My husband is a big part of the problem, he has trouble acting like an adult (he wants to be their friend, and he likes to joke around with them and his discipline means nothing), so I'd also like ideas for how to get him on board. It's gotten to thepoint where I think he's willing to change. He used to think their behavior was cute but now he's getting really stressed and burned out from it. It's exhausting living like this.

amother

Mon, Sep 10 2012, 6:21 am

I was a brat. This is how I was dealt with:

I constantly complained that my mum's food was not very good, nutritious but unappetising would be a fair way to describe how it actually was. At the age of 8 she rightly informed me that if I didn't like her cooking I could cook for myself. So I did (with appropriate supervision). By 11 I was doing Shabbos dinner.

My suggestion is that if your husband doesn't want to grow up, try encouraging your eldest to step up a bit. More focus on achieving could help the situation.

the world's best mom

Mon, Sep 10 2012, 10:04 am

A lot of what you are describing is normal, at least to an extent. All siblings fight and all kids kvetch and tantrum sometimes. And it's great that your husband jokes around with the kids, as long as he can be firm when necessary. It is a problem if his discipline means nothing and if he finds their misbehaviors funny.

When children misbehave a lot, there are 2 general styles of dealing with it. Some people punish their kids a lot, and the more the kids misbehave, the meaner the mother gets. This usually tends to backfire.

Then there is a gentler style. By using positive reinforcement, complimenting any good behavior, and using star charts, you can accomplish a ton. Some things to keep in mind:

-No child (or adult) wants to listen to someone who spends their whole day criticising. Therefore, it's extremely important to be on the look out for good behaviors, no matter how small, and compliment them regularly. You should also play with the kids and have enjoyable time together.

-When a child deserves a hug the least, that's when they need it the most.

-Star charts can be extremely helpful. You can make some for individuals, to address one child's individual needs. You can also make some for the whole family, where each child has a certain amount of boxes to fill, and when the whole chart is done, the family gets to go out for ice cream together or something like that. It's good to tackle the fighting like that- anyone who doesn't fight back when someone starts up with them gets a star, or however you want to address it.

-You need to have clear rules and consequences for when the rules are broken. Then you have to keep to them, every single time. Consistancy is the key. Tell the children that if you ask them to do something and they don't listen the first time, you will count to 3 and then they lose their chance to listen. For example, you tell them to get dressed and they don't listen, they lost their chance to get dressed and are stuck inside in pajamas all day. There should be no yelling involved, because if you will always yell, the kids will wait for the yelling before they start to obey your commands.

-When a child tantrums, you should ignore it. I usually tell my children they are welcome to cry if they want, but they'll have to go do so in their room where they won't be disturbing the family. Their other option is to stay out and stop crying.

-Your children are NOT brats. They are normal children seeking clear, loving discipline and direction. I certainly hope you never tell them that they are brats, because children will live up to any names they are called.
Good luck!

Marion

Mon, Sep 10 2012, 11:44 am

This sounds like my house...but my oldest is only 6. Some of the fighting and arguing we were able to cut out by being more organized. (EG: there's no more fighting over getting dressed in the morning or which clothes because THEY take them out the night before and then they don't have to figure it out when they're still bleary eyed.) Some of the fighting is going to resolve itself only after we reconfigure the bedrooms (my two oldest are currently sharing and bedtime is a nightmare...they are about to be separated so that the crib and DS#4 will share with DS#1 - he won't pick on a baby! - and DS#2 will share with DS#3). And some of the rest of it is just normal sibling rivalry. And some of it we're going to have to figure out as we go because it stems from a situation that is not going to change, and is likely to get worse before it gets better.

But yeah, giving them some responsibility for it and rewarding the positive changes definitely works.

Petra

Mon, Sep 10 2012, 12:58 pm

Yeah, my household is very similar. Our once angelic baby of the family has become fully esconced into toddler behavior, tantrums and all. She can go on for 30 minutes screaming at the top of her lungs. This is similar to her siblings as well when they were her age. A babysitter once inadvertantly let me know that she did not approve of "allowing our children to have tantrums and scream" by emailing me a letter she had meant for someone else. But there is not one can do about a tantrum other than let is pass and not give in.

Our 7 yr old is the most difficult. She is the sweetest outside the home but inside the home she yells at her parents, talks back, cries and whines a lot. It's exasperating. It did decrease a little when we tried very hard to focus on her positive traits. We slacked a bit so have to get back on the wagon.

Our middle child started Tai Kwon Do not too long ago. His behavior has improved dramatically. We'll see if it lasts.

But, our household is not very peaceful. There is still too much yelling going on.

amother

Mon, Sep 10 2012, 8:36 pm

Totally can be me too. When my oldest was in 5th grade she had full blown tantrums (screaming and kicking on the floor) after speaking to her principle I decided I needed real proffessional help for her. The principle recommended a great therapist. After I had an initial consult with the therapist she told me that she wants me to come see her, not my daughter.
It's the best thing I did. She knows me, and all my kids and helps me help them all with their unique challenges.

My house is soooo much calmer.
I know seeing someone was/is so tabboo, but I know more and more "normal" people that just need a bit direction are trying it out. So worth it.

amother

Tue, Sep 11 2012, 11:14 am

amother wrote:

would you be willing to post her name & number?

FranticFrummie

Thu, Sep 13 2012, 5:22 am

OP, I'd swear you live down the street from me, but their oldest is 13 (going on 23!). You are SO not alone!

Boundaries
Consequences
Consistency
Positive rewards

Rinse, repeat until it becomes second nature. This means that you and DH need a LOT of personal discipline in order to make it work, but you have to ask yourself "Is it worth it? What if things just stay the same, or get even worse?"

All the kids need jobs to do around the house. Not for allowance money, but because they live there and they need to contribute to the household. Each one needs to clean up their own stuff, and have one job that is exclusively theirs. This will give them pride of accomplishment, and a feeling of investment in the home. Try not to laugh you butt off when your son says to one of the younger ones "Hey, watch what you're doing, I just mopped the kitchen!" See how proud one of them is when they remember to take out the garbage without having to be asked. Even a toddler can be given a baby wipe and asked to clean off the lower kitchen cabinets. When everyone contributes, there's more teamwork and less fighting.

When you gather at the dinner table, praise each one if they did their job b'simcha. Praise the ones who did it but still whined, but not as much. Since kids are naturally competitive, they'll start trying to see who gets the most praise at the dinner table! A much nicer conversation than "who punched who"!

smilethere

Thu, Sep 13 2012, 5:39 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

You've said exactly what I wanted to say but in better words!!

Believe me, with all the above, my life is still chaos, but we are working on it constantly. Some things like excess energy and a tiny flat do not combine to a peaceful life, but I try that my children should grow up to know how mentchen are meant to behave, even if they don't always behave that way.

sunny90

Thu, Sep 13 2012, 6:19 am

I only have 2 kids--almost 3 and just 1 yo--but I went to an Al Pi Darko class a while ago and it had really great ideas and insight into the way children think.
The class was basically based on the premise of the book Children: The Challenge by Rudolf Dreikurs. You can buy it on Amazon and it's really really good! It's an old book but still very helpful. I re read it every few months and it definitely helps me. The basic idea is that children need a "place" in their family, their social group, their school etc. and when they don't know their place, they act up. Or they put themselves in the role of the good one, the "bad" one, etc in order to find their place.
Really really excellent.

ABC

Thu, Sep 13 2012, 6:20 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

What do you recommend as age-appropriate activities, and how do you actually get the kids to do them? Do they all do them at the same (is there "chore time"?) I'm scared this will just lead to more nagging from me. Are there consequences if they don't do their chore? What kind of consequences? I really want to start this in my family, but not sure what/how much to ask them to do, and how and when.

Culturedpearls

Thu, Sep 13 2012, 7:37 am

Baba's advice is great. You must get those books.
Your kids are normal & I promise you Bli neder it will get easier.

Here's what helped us survive:

Strict routine morning & evening. Get up at a set time, homework , dinner, bath all at a set time. Everyone into bed at a set time.
Clothes picked out the night before.
I would actually feed the kids dinner the second they walked in from school (we'd eat later) as I found they were calmer on a full stomach.
I also made it a habit that every child had a monthly Scheduled day off to spend with Mommy. Sometimes it would be the afternoon only & I'd take the child out for ice cream or whatever he/she preferred. It gave us a chance to talk & even years later I reap the benefits of those "lunches".
Also is your ADHD child on medication?