I hope this site is not bringing down good frum women!

Isramom8

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 11:50 am

squirrel wrote:

Isramom8 wrote:

OP, you have a few options:

1. Reply to posts you consider misleading and try to correct whatever you consider negative messages.
2. Post only in the Chareidi, Yeshivish or other sections where you feel comfortable.
3. Don't visit this website.
4. Find a different site (or try to start one) with different entrance and posting criteria.
5. Keep coming here and deal with it.

You might have expressed your feelings as follows: "I am concerned that women on this site, who have been innocent about certain ideas and practices till now, are being exposed to ideas and practices that are unnecessary for them to hear about, because learning about these things might tempt them to change their standards for the worse. Can other posters relate to my concerns, and post about the pros and cons of this happening?"

I feel like im in prison being told what to do and I have the choice to word it my way.
Actually, I did try and reply to women misleading someone seeking advice where her dh was not davening, wearing tzitzus ect and it was affecting her shalom bayis greatly and when some wise people told her to talk to her rav then all the rude comments came pouring in.

I apologize. Some people don't like wording suggestions. I can understand that.

squirrel

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 1:43 pm

bamamama wrote:

OP - You are not the guardian of the faith. Your refusal to back down on this really makes me hope that you are alone in your ideas that information is bad. Information is not bad. Yes, some choose to construct a facade for themselves and to live in a fairytale without acknowledging the outside world. The women who are here are NOT those women. Please, please stop assuming that teh Poor Frum Sheeple will be led astray by teh Big Bad MO. Exchange of knowledge and ideas is a Good Thing and your continued defense of your histrionics just makes you look stupid.

Nothing you are saying has anything to do with what I posted, people seem to think I have a problem with others gaining knowledge here and ALL I EVER SAID IS TO STOP PUTTING DOWN THOSE WITH VIEWS UNLIKE YOUR OWN AND NOT TO PASKIN HALACHA! NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I WILL EXPLAIN IT PEOPLE SEEM STUCK TO IDEAS LIKE I SAID ORAL relations IS USSER (WHEN I ADMITTED ITS NOT FOR ME), OR CONTINUE HEARING THINGS I NEVER SAID. AND I DO NOT NEED TO CHANGE MY WAY OF THINKING JUST BECAUSE YOUR REPLIES ARE BECOMING MORE THREATENING!

bamamama

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 1:54 pm

squirrel wrote:

bamamama wrote:

OP, you've lost sight of your own argument. Your own title says "I hope this site is not bringing down good frum women". If that's not an indictment against sharing information, I don't know what is.

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 1:56 pm

In support of squirrel- the lone brave voice who dares to speak out with an imamother unpopular opinion.

Yet, I agree with Isramum. you cant change the site. Either deal with it or leave it.
To try and explain what I believe squirrel is referring to, I know friends who have been on this site that admitted they started having having doubts regarding their chareidi lifestyle. Its great to be open minded but it is important to know that what is halacha for MO posters may not be chareidi halacha. I know this confused one friend who kept on saying is it really not against halacha for women to wear pants? or to uncover their hair in uncomfortable circumstances?
It may be ok for MO halacha but a chareidi woman would prob not get this psak halacha. Since the active posters seem to be MO this is not always so obvious.
I also think the name a site for frum women is misleading to some chareidi posters who assume frum means somewhere on the dati spectrum.
Im sorry if I offended any MO posters that was not my intentions. Im just daring to stand up for the chareidi posters that have not pmed me but like myself feel like whatever we say we will bashed and put down by the more eloquent MO posters. I love reading well written English paragraphs. they are so much more convincing and pleasant to read than posts like this one but it intimidates many chareidi posters that may have differing opinions and yes as squirrel said are still normal and dont feel stifled until they keep getting vibes to feel so time and time again.

And thanks you to Yael for this wonderful site. I have really benefited from it in many ways. Im just trying to explain where squirrel may be coming from

Clarissa

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 2:00 pm

squirrel wrote:

bamamama wrote:

Two things:

1) You need to calm down.

2) Congrats on the oral s*x.

imamiri

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 2:00 pm

squirrel wrote:

bamamama wrote:

She threatened you where?

Let's look at your first post, OP:

Quote:

This has been bothering me ever since I heard about this site, it seems like many women out there are coming here for advice without knowing who they are getting it from.

As has been stated, welcome to the internet. Ever tried looking for a recipe online? You get hundreds and hundreds of results. Some suck, some are awesome, most are in the middle. It's YOUR job to figure out based on what you know about your level of cooking skill to figure out which one you choose, not the other internet users to filter for you.

Quote:

There are all types on here ranging from ultra orthodox to modern. Many are asking questions that belongs to a rav.

Depends on your "stream". Many do not go to their rabbis for many things.

Quote:

So many people here feel they are allowed to paskin and sometimes even advising against halacha.

Halachah or a chumrah? And are they actually giving a psak or sharing what they've learned?

Quote:

If you were told by your rav that something is okay, that may be for you in your situation but not for others.

So you should shut up and never share? Why? Maybe someone might like to hear that not every darn door and window is closed all the time in the box.

Quote:

It would be advisable that instead of telling them what you do rather refer them to their local rabbi.

Yeah we already see AYLOR on every thread, try to keep up.

Quote:

Also people seem to be offending those who are more stringent with halacha. I feel that some women here are made to feel stupid for being so frum and I am sure they are wondering that if everyone is doing so then why should I be so 'frummed out'!

No but there are those who take on many chumrot and seem to enjoy trying to make those that do not feel as though they are not frum by implying their chumrah is indeed halachah.

Quote:

It also surprises me to see how things have changed drastically over the last few years, im so afraid to raise my children is this crazy world.

The Christians think so too. And the Muslims. And some secular people. You can always chain 'em up in the basement and never let them see the light of day but that's not a great plan.

Quote:

So to those who have given their opinions that I.e. oral relations, zera levatala, shomer nagiah (before marriage). is okay, please think before doing so and the same to those frum Bais Yaakov girls coming here with halacha questions please remember that anyone here could be answering your questions, (would you ask any modern person walking down the street?).

Someone probably already mentioned it but oral sx is not assur to everyone. And women here are not looking for a psak, but an opinion. And what's your obsession with modern. You do realize that some would see you as modern for being on the internet in the first place?

Quote:

Thats why we have so many rabbanim who make themselves available for us.

Then go call yours and delete your account.

naturalmom5

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 2:02 pm

Maybe it's just the opposite . Sincere committed MO women come here and are exposed to really repulsive really shallow disgusting women that claim to be Charedi .
That whole Weberman thread was absolutely horrendous .
Now there are threads challenging the whole concept of chesed. Puleeeze.

The debacle in Willy. The ways children, particularly girls are treated in applying to Lakewood schools. The Shidduch crisis.
Lets face it Leida Leida , there are really atrocious things going on.
When I gave birth, could I of managed , sure , could my husband or mother bright food , definitely. But the ladies bringing meals really made me feel wonderful to of joined this community. It's things like that are the only reason I don't run to Wyoming and leave it all behind .

Now I read some want to do away with that too .

zaq

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 2:07 pm

ef wrote:

I also think the name a site for frum women is misleading to some chareidi posters who assume frum means somewhere on the dati spectrum.

HELLOOOO?????
You don't get it, either, clearly.
Or maybe I'm the one who doesn't get it.
Are you telling me that "frum" is NOT somewhere on the "dati spectrum"?
What does that mean? Dati is not frum? Frum is not dati? Modern Orthodox is not on the "dati spectrum"? That is really odd, because the only people I know who even use the term "dati" are MO/DL/chardal. Granted, I'm in the USA and have almost zero contact with Ivrit-speaking charedim, so YMMV.

But what I'm hearing from you--and please do correct me if I misunderstood--is that charedi women assume "frum' means observant enough to be identified as "dati", and this misleads charedi women because as far as they are concerned, MO is not anywhere on the dati spectrum. Which is a wonderfully concise restatement of OP's OP.

busydev

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 2:28 pm

re: defining frum

I remember my parents once had a heated discussion about this at the shabbos table.

My mother who grew up in Boro Park, went to a chassidish elementary school (even tho she was raised litvihs not chasidish) and to Bais Yaakov of Boro Park was insisting that frum meant ultra-orthodox. Bais Yaakov. Yeshivish. Chassidish.

My father who grew up in a Young Israel home which moved to the right (became very yeshivish in general) under the guidance of Rabbi Avigdor Miller shlita said that frum means shomer TH, shabbos and kashrush.

My mother was insisting based on her understanding that people who wear pants, dont cover their hair, are zionistic, etc etc (not ultra orthodox) were not frum.

My father was arguing that yes they were. Orthodox means frum no matter what end of the spectrum. To my mother frum=ultra orthodox.

I was more in line with my fathers way of thinking. I call myself ultraorthodox/yeshivish. But I call MO people frum.

I think OP is more in line with my mother's thinking and thats what ef was talking about. If you grew up with "frum" meaning ultraorthodox, then yes it will be a shocker to come onto this site for frum women and find out that some wear pants, dont cover their hair and dont go to their rav every time a hiccup comes up in their lives.

If you define frum as TH, shomor shabbos and kashrush then you can take the inforamtion you come across here with a grain of salt and will have a much easier time picking out the information you agree with and leaving the information you dont agree with. Without having to post warnings or asking questions about why there are OTD people on here when its allegedly for frum woman. (since MO is basically OTD to those that think frum is only defined as ultraorthodox- I am not calling MO OTD. Just saying that there are people that do...in case it wasnt obvious)