I hope this site is not bringing down good frum women!

ally

Wed, Dec 19 2012, 11:01 am

Shmerling wrote:

mummiedearest wrote:

squirrel wrote:

zaq wrote:

squirrel wrote:

Also people seem to be offending those who are more stringent with halacha. .

But for this line, I'd have "liked" your post. People are equally guilty offending those who are less stringent, making it painfully clear that they consider "not frum" or "not really frum" or "can't trust their frumkeit" anyone who doesn't observe the stringencies that they do. And there a whole lot of ignorance out there about what is halacha lemoshe misinai and what is an optional stringency and what is not even a stringency but a particular group's social norm that has no relevance to any other group.

Zaq you are right and I wanted to include that in my post as well - not to degrade those who do what some dont do, and more frum should not degrade either but my point here was that there are some who hold differently and are coming here for some questionable opinions and going by that. I am not so concerned of the reverse happening iykwim.

why are you not concerned with the reverse happening, squirrel?

Why should she be concerned that someone might become more right-wing?

I think her mistake was that she should have posted this in the 'chareidi section'.

Some of us worry about the shift to the right just as much as you worry about the shift to the left.

mummiedearest

Wed, Dec 19 2012, 11:01 am

Shmerling wrote:

mummiedearest wrote:

squirrel wrote:

zaq wrote:

squirrel wrote:

Also people seem to be offending those who are more stringent with halacha. .

why are you not concerned with the reverse happening, squirrel?

Why should she be concerned that someone might become more right-wing?

I think her mistake was that she should have posted this in the 'chareidi section'.

right. I was making a point, that people seem to think that more right-wing=frummer. and it's not. everyone feels that their own way is the best, and that's ok. but it's not ok to state in public that other ways are inferior to yours. and this is not just a question of pc, this is a question of basic middos. other people have feelings, and being mo is not the equivalent of spiritually lazy.

squirrel

Wed, Dec 19 2012, 11:03 am

zaq wrote:

costanza wrote:

Actually I don't believe anyone is offended. .

You believe wrong. I was deeply offended. Perhaps I'm the only one, but I am not nobody.

Zaq, I am truly sorry if you feel offended and to all those out there who are jumping or misinturpreting my words. And zaq your posts are well written and maybe I should have hired you to write it for me but I think you understand what I mean. Also to answer your previous question, I did answer why I did not end up writing that those who feel 'frummer' should not degrade others, because a lot of my point was mostly that people should not turn here for their final psak. According to replies it seems like a big mistake not to have included that.
And to all those objecting and bashing please feel free, I took the risk of posting knowing that this would happen.

mummiedearest

Wed, Dec 19 2012, 11:08 am

ally wrote:

Shmerling wrote:

mummiedearest wrote:

squirrel wrote:

zaq wrote:

squirrel wrote:

Also people seem to be offending those who are more stringent with halacha. .

why are you not concerned with the reverse happening, squirrel?

Why should she be concerned that someone might become more right-wing?

I think her mistake was that she should have posted this in the 'chareidi section'.

Some of us worry about the shift to the right just as much as you worry about the shift to the left.

exactly.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Dec 19 2012, 11:10 am

Shmerling wrote:

mummiedearest wrote:

squirrel wrote:

zaq wrote:

squirrel wrote:

Also people seem to be offending those who are more stringent with halacha. .

why are you not concerned with the reverse happening, squirrel?

Why should she be concerned that someone might become more right-wing?

I think her mistake was that she should have posted this in the 'chareidi section'.

How do you know if she is even part of that section? She did not mention that she was charedi.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Dec 19 2012, 11:11 am

ally wrote:

Shmerling wrote:

mummiedearest wrote:

squirrel wrote:

zaq wrote:

squirrel wrote:

Also people seem to be offending those who are more stringent with halacha. .

why are you not concerned with the reverse happening, squirrel?

Why should she be concerned that someone might become more right-wing?

I think her mistake was that she should have posted this in the 'chareidi section'.

Some of us worry about the shift to the right just as much as you worry about the shift to the left.

very much so.

Shmerling

Wed, Dec 19 2012, 11:15 am

ally wrote:

Shmerling wrote:

mummiedearest wrote:

squirrel wrote:

zaq wrote:

squirrel wrote:

Also people seem to be offending those who are more stringent with halacha. .

why are you not concerned with the reverse happening, squirrel?

Why should she be concerned that someone might become more right-wing?

I think her mistake was that she should have posted this in the 'chareidi section'.

Some of us worry about the shift to the right just as much as you worry about the shift to the left.

Ok, but obviously a chareidi person is not worried about that. She was warning the chareidi posters to be careful. I guess you could start a thread warning the MO posters to be careful.

mummiedearest

Wed, Dec 19 2012, 11:19 am

Shmerling wrote:

ally wrote:

Shmerling wrote:

mummiedearest wrote:

squirrel wrote:

zaq wrote:

squirrel wrote:

Also people seem to be offending those who are more stringent with halacha. .

why are you not concerned with the reverse happening, squirrel?

Why should she be concerned that someone might become more right-wing?

I think her mistake was that she should have posted this in the 'chareidi section'.

Some of us worry about the shift to the right just as much as you worry about the shift to the left.

Ok, but obviously a chareidi person is not worried about that. She was warning the chareidi posters to be careful. I guess you could start a thread warning the MO posters to be careful.

actually, she was warning the "good frum women" to be careful.

why would anyone start a thread to warn the mo posters? we're not in elementary school, we don't need to have an even number of offensive threads.

Shmerling

Wed, Dec 19 2012, 11:31 am

mummiedearest wrote:

Shmerling wrote:

ally wrote:

Shmerling wrote:

mummiedearest wrote:

squirrel wrote:

zaq wrote:

squirrel wrote:

Also people seem to be offending those who are more stringent with halacha. .

why are you not concerned with the reverse happening, squirrel?

Why should she be concerned that someone might become more right-wing?

I think her mistake was that she should have posted this in the 'chareidi section'.

Some of us worry about the shift to the right just as much as you worry about the shift to the left.

Ok, but obviously a chareidi person is not worried about that. She was warning the chareidi posters to be careful. I guess you could start a thread warning the MO posters to be careful.

You had a 'tayna' why she was only concerned about one way. If anyone is really concerned the other way they could start another thread (in the MO section)

And ftr I also think this thread was a bit offensive. As soon as I read the OP I cringed knowing exactly what the reaction would be.

mummiedearest

Wed, Dec 19 2012, 11:35 am

Shmerling wrote:

mummiedearest wrote:

Shmerling wrote:

ally wrote:

Shmerling wrote:

mummiedearest wrote:

squirrel wrote:

zaq wrote:

squirrel wrote:

Also people seem to be offending those who are more stringent with halacha. .

why are you not concerned with the reverse happening, squirrel?

Why should she be concerned that someone might become more right-wing?

I think her mistake was that she should have posted this in the 'chareidi section'.

Some of us worry about the shift to the right just as much as you worry about the shift to the left.

Ok, but obviously a chareidi person is not worried about that. She was warning the chareidi posters to be careful. I guess you could start a thread warning the MO posters to be careful.

yes, I had a tayna. I don't think having the other thread would make any of us feel better about it. a thread that was all-inclusive in its warning would have been just fine. it also would have been unnecessary, imo, because I have no reason to feel I am in a position to warn people about spiritual dangers. in addition, "aylor" is used very often on this site.

CatLady

Wed, Dec 19 2012, 11:40 am

Quote:

Actually, I wouldn't ask a halachic question of anyone walking down the street, whether he was wearing a black hat, crocheted kippah, or rocking a Speedo. But you pick on "modern" people (without the courtesy of adding "Orthodox"). So the sum total of your advice appears to be, "frum ladies, BEWARE. There are Modern Orthodox women on this site, and when you ask a halachic question, they might be answering. And listening to them would bring down good frum women."

I'd describe myself as ultra-Modern Orthodox for the purposes of this discussion. I know that I'm a basically nice person, observant enough to want to join this site and qualified to be here according to Yael's criteria. But this post, and the implications of my lesser status (didn't they abolish the caste system in India?) have succeeded in bringing this good frum woman down. So sadly I have to agree with the OP, or reject her POV entirely. Which is how I'm gonna roll.

squirrel

Wed, Dec 19 2012, 11:51 am

I did not realize that there is a charedi section here but I think that 'chit chat' is perfectly suitable for my post. Also to further elaborate on my post (and again feel free to bash), women also seem to think its okay to label others with terms such as crazy, problematic ect.
For example, our rav is okay with us using birth control for several years but when someone posts that her dh is against birth control and is causing shalom bayis issues then calling her dh names is not going to improve her shalom bayis, by doing so you are just confirming that if she feels there is a problem with her dh then she is right because everyone else is saying so. I respect that women out there do things different than I do and there are many women who dont have an easy time doing them and give them lots of credit, so before bashing and name calling just think and be sensitive to others feelings.

ally

Wed, Dec 19 2012, 11:56 am

squirrel wrote:

If you have an issue in a thread, say so there. It is really obnoxious to start a thread to lecture the general audience of imamother posters. Especially when you have so few posts.

greenfire

Wed, Dec 19 2012, 11:57 am

zaq wrote:

costanza wrote:

Actually I don't believe anyone is offended. .

You believe wrong. I was deeply offended. Perhaps I'm the only one, but I am not nobody.

I'm offended as well ... the reasons mostly that a lot of judgmentalism regarding religious levels makes me cringe and I think wow - why would anybody want to be that way and I have to think & rethink if frumkeit is all that ... what with the molestations, the my shul is better than your shul, this way is good & your way is bad, and all the other bullsh!t ~ it's people like 'you' who bring my spirituality down ...

thankfully I then remember the posuk in tehillim פרק קי"ט פסוק צב

לולי תורתך שעשעי אז אבדתי בעניי

if it were not for your torah, I would have perished in my affliction

Hashem in heaven give me strength to withstand the fallacies of outer religious garb and the cruelties from one human to another & continue to be true to you in my soul & my spiritual pursuits - amen !!!

ally

Wed, Dec 19 2012, 11:59 am

Shmerling wrote:

ally wrote:

Shmerling wrote:

mummiedearest wrote:

squirrel wrote:

zaq wrote:

squirrel wrote:

Also people seem to be offending those who are more stringent with halacha. .

why are you not concerned with the reverse happening, squirrel?

Why should she be concerned that someone might become more right-wing?

I think her mistake was that she should have posted this in the 'chareidi section'.

Some of us worry about the shift to the right just as much as you worry about the shift to the left.

Ok, but obviously a chareidi person is not worried about that. She was warning the chareidi posters to be careful. I guess you could start a thread warning the MO posters to be careful.

Good frum == Chareidi?
Not in my world.