Someone HELP! | Imamother

amother

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 3:02 am

I got a phone call tonight from a good friend of mine. She said she overheard her ds talking to his friend about a guy in their class and saying his girlfriend's name-dd! I'm totally shocked and so upset and I know its dd because I don't know anyone else with the same first and last name. She's a senior in high school and I know she's been struggling with some things and she listens to non-jewish music and watches movies which is not acceptable according to mine and dh's standards. I suspected she indirectly talks to guys, maybe friends' brothers, flirts with other guys, but I never thought she went this far. I looked through her phone tonight when she was in the bathroom (yes, I may have been wrong for doing this but I felt like I had to) and she had the initials of the guy in her phone, and so I assume it was him. I'm scheduling a therapy session on monday because I guess it really is necessary and I don't want to confront her without someone else to be and intermediary. I'm SO devastated. I feel like all the hard work I put into raising her went down the drain. My friend said from what it sounded like, she may not even be shomer with him. I'm so numb now I'm like shocked and devastated. Dh was away in Israel and I couldn't speak to him about it so he doesn't even know yet! I just cried to my friend for a while and now I'm crying to the computer Sad

Dd went out with her friends tonight but I'm thinking I shouldn't have trusted her. HELP! Thanks for letting me vent!

naturalmom5

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 3:27 am

OMG!!!!! OP.......Thatts horrible... Hugs to you..

I say if you find out that she isnt the good little Bais Yacob girl you expected her to be , just disown her for good.. After all we all know that its all or nothing. If she isnt as Charedi and frum as you and your DH want her to be, its better to just sit shiva for her now...

Seriously, stop thinking about yourself... "This is not how we raised her all these years" and find out whats troubling her and maybe sshow her some unconditional love..

Sorry for the harsh tone. I deal with at-risk girls all the time, that have mothers like you...

amother

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 4:11 am

I'm not trying to be selfish here, I really want what's best for her. I don't bother her about the non-jewish music because I don't think that's something that's dangerous and harmful to her future but I'm horrified that she has a boyfriend because that can be harmful to her future! I'm saying non jewish music isn't our derech but I still don't fuss over it!

chani8

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 8:18 am

I know how scary this can be, OP. You're trying to do the right thing and can't figure out what that is. Teens are tough, and the ones acting out are a nightmare. It is so hard.

I had a whole thread about how I had to change my mentality, and stop looking at this from a judgmental POV. Your child needs you and needs your love and if that means you just need to let go of your religious values when you deal with her, so be it. Apparently she is rejecting your values, anyway, so just put your religious standards away and think of this as just a mother daughter thing. She is upset and rebelling and you have to ask yourself, why? You probably really do know why. If you don't, then you have a big gap in your relationship with your DD, and that will be one of the reasons 'why'. So, that is the biggest, most important step. And once you know what the problem is, focus on solving it with her, together.

If you think she is zexually active, then you need to give her all the info about safe zex, asap. That is very upsetting to have to do, but you really do want her to have all the info so that she does not get pregnant.

amother

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 8:23 am

When a parent learns their child is doing something not acceptable in their circles it is very challenging.
I would not necessarily confront my daughter with what I learned directly. I would keep a sharp eye on everything.
I would focus most on strengthening my relationship with my daughter. Often with teens it can help to discuss these topics in general or about "a friend".
Hatzlocha

b from nj

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 8:28 am

I'm not sure that bringing her for therapy is the solution even though I do understand that you are so upset that your DD seems to be going in a different derech than that which you had hoped for her. Do you think that once you calm down a bit you can mention to her that you heard about her boyfriend & you are concerned about it even though you understand that it makes her feel good to have one but you are concerned about the halachic issues involved etc...

I wish you hatzlacha & I say welcome to the joys of raising teens. It ain't easy, that is for sure & I understand that you want to have her speak to someone but I'm just not sure that "therapy" is what's needed here. A therapist is helpful when the child has a disorder such as an eating disorder, personality disorder but I'm not sure it's the appropriate person to turn to when your daughter has a boyfriend even though it is so upsetting & concerning to you.

b from nj

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 9:03 am

chani8 wrote:

b and j, do you really think she should bring up 'halachic issues' of having a boyfriend?

I think it is important to bring up her general concerns about her daughter having a boyfriend which include halachic issues of not being shomer negiah which is something that is not acceptable in their family & as a child who is still living at home, she should respect the rules of the family- ie the rules of the Torah. The problem is that it is hard for the mom to compete with the 'love' her DD is feeling from the boyfriend. As I was saying, it's ain't easy & there are no easy answers but I am just not sure that dragging the girl for therapy is the solution b/c she likely won't be willing to cooperate with the therapist anyhow.

AlwaysThinking

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 9:15 am

When I was in high school, I was one of the 'frummies' - a good BY-type girl in a non-BY school. But I went though a difficult time and at one point I had a boyfriend. I didn't even think about shomer negiah - I didn't want to touch him so I avoided it, until one day he just kissed me on the cheek. Then I realised if I'm going out with a guy like that, I'm not going to be shomer negiah, am I? Our relationship went on and off for a while until I pulled away feeling guilty. But at the time it was filling some emotional need.

My parents dealt badly with it, so I won't tell you what they did, but I'll tell you what woudl have helped me at the time.

If you can try and work out which kind of need your DD woudl be filling - whether she's picked up on cheap romance from films, etc. or she's been finding it tough at home or with school work, and talk to her about that. You want to establish a firm connection and closeness before blaming her. Even bring in examples from your own teenage years (you must have something, right? Or even mention someone's elses story, say you had a friend that was telling you what went on when she was a teen, and describe how hard it is sometimes to do the right thing. You want her to feel like she wants to share things with you, and that you understand. What she doesn't need is disapproval and distance.

Hopefully it's something small, and with some love and care, she'll be back on track. It does help if you have something in your own past or a friend's to talk about, so you can discuss how quick romances aren't worth it, and the hurt that gets caused at the end etc.

I think going to the therapist is the right idea, but you don't necessarily have to confront her straight away. Gain her trust, so she doesn't get all defensive and angry at being found out.

Good luck.

amother

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 2:00 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

Wow. Just wow. This hurt to read, and I have no similarities to the OP. In a previous thread, you wrote "And the fact that you got only 9 likes and OP got 118 is a reason to tear kriah and fast many fasts..... ". So in your haste to show how liberal-minded you are, you can show plenty of empathy and zero criticism for someone contemplating an abortion as a result of an affair, but you're hard-pressed to show a little empathy for a woman who is clearly in shock and upset right now and obviously wanting to do the best by her child?

I appreciated the fact that you were so non-judgmental in the other thread, but since then, and after seeing this, it is pretty clear that you can only afford to be "non-judgmental" when it comes to anything that nasty, evil chareidim don't approve of. Everything else is fair game. Come on! I'm not charedi, but this is just too much. Offer her some constructive support during this tough time for her and don't presume to know details of her lifestyle.

OP, I'm sorry you had to find out in this manner. That was have been a rude awakening! I hope you are able to talk it all through with your daughter in a way that brings you guys closer than ever. Wishing you much strength, love, and clarity. Heart

naturalmom5

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 2:20 pm

Previous poster.. I thought I was showing tremendous apathy for OP.. I really feel bad that for what she is going through, I have teens myself, its not easy.

However, I volunteer to work with at risk girls, and girls with issue all the time IRL.. From real-experience , not armchair vicarious forums, I can tell you and OP, that if you care about your child or any jewish child, you cant worry about yourself, your feelings, or your lifestyle. You have to show your child unconditional love regardless....

Talk to them, try to understand them, LISTEN to them...Nothing else matters but building and maintaining a relationship with your child.. That is the ONLY way, they will continue to be a part of your life, and hopefully will be observant on any level down the road....

Barbara

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 3:49 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

Yes, but we also need to divide out how OP feels from how she is going to react and interact with her DD.

Her DD is doing things that are not accepted in her derech. And OP is entitled to be saddened and disheartened by that, to mourn a little. We all have dreams for our kids, and much as we know that they need to find their own ways, we are a bit sad when they don't fulfill that dream. From the mom who always wanted to dance whose daughter prefers soccer, to the bookworm whose kid hates books, to the women who dreams of her sons in kollel but whose kids want to attend college. OP's reaction is only natural. And she is entitled to our sympathy. My sympathy.

Interacting with her DD is a different story. No one is recommending that she share that disappointment with her DD. It's hard for me to say what is right, given how different our derechs are. Perhaps OP should talk to her DD not about the information she received, but about the future. What does her DD want for herself after high school. Does she see herself in seminary? School? Working? Shidduch dating? What are her hopes? Dreams? Listen. Then talk about alternatives and consequences.

amother

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 6:54 pm

OP here. For now we're pretending nothing happened, acting completely natural with dd. I did chat with her at lunch about nothing in particular and now I'm waiting for everyone to come home for supper. Should I just be talking casually just to increase the connection? I think she'd view it as suspicious if we suddenly had an intense conversation. Dh and I spoke it over today on the phone, and he was upset, but he can't really do much from abroad. One thing we established is that we will not tell the boy's parents for sure.

mummiedearest

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 7:18 pm

op,

I have a question. everyone here is giving you advice on how to deal with the boyfriend issue. has it not occurred to you that you are panicking over a rumor? so she has the boy's initials in her phone. that's not proof. unless there are multiple texts from him, signed with his name, indicating that they are in a relationship, you don't actually know anything.

I think the proper thing to do with her is sit down privately (the therapist is not a good idea unless she agrees to it and knows the purpose beforehand) and be very open with her.

"I heard a rumor recently, and rather than jumping to conclusions I wanted to ask you about it directly. the rumor is that you are dating shimshy vaisnisht. if it is true, I will need some time to digest it, and I will want to discuss it with you further at some point. I will not blow up at you if it is true, I just need to know the truth. it is important that I be aware of what is happening in your life."

if she tells you that she is, in fact, dating shimshy vaisnisht, you have what to think about. right now you have rumors. I'm sure there are boys who would boast about being her boyfriend if they have a crush on her. there are also boys who will make assumptions if they see a boy or girl talk in public. there are many explanations other than the most obvious, and I think you owe it to your daughter to talk to her directly and in private. if she denies that she is dating young master vaisnisht, you will still have an opening to discuss the pros and cons of teenage dating, her feelings on the matter, and your feelings on the matter. it also gives you an opportunity to become closer to your teenager.

I do understand your concern, but I think you need to take a step back and find out exactly what's going on before turning this into a huge deal.

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 9:24 pm

Keep eye on the goal. The goal is you want her to have a happy family life in the light of the Torah.

You haven't said you don't like this boy or his family. Tread with care; he may be your son in law for thirty years.

Let her know that being a woman is not like skipping through the playground at age eight and talk to her woman to woman. Explain it is probable she will live her life as she was raised and that people have long memories. Explain that even if she leaves the derech and the state that there are realities that will follow her because she is a

woman.

Don't panic.

I am sure you did not raise any idiots.

Don't talk to her like she is dirt. She's a woman.