Someone HELP! | Imamother

Merrymom

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 10:37 pm

First discussion that all mothers need to have with dd is that having s*x with a man/boy while a niddah makes him chayev karais. Is that what a girl would want for someone that they supposedly love? It's amazing how few singles know this basic fact.

Second is rush to a therapist with your dd. My dd tells me that she knows of two girls in her Bais Yaakov that are in a s*xual relationship. Both these girls are begging their parents to see a therapist but the parents refuse. Every teen should be seeing a therapist just to get through these years.

Now these girls are the just the ones that she knows about, she know of quite a few besides that are hanging out with boys. Do not bury your head in the sand and have your dh come pick her up from where she's supposed to be unexpectedly. Just because she says she's going to Shani's house doesn't make it so. Her boyfriend can easily pick her up from there or from a second place that the girls go to. Trust is not a right, it has to be earned and quite frankly your dd has lost hers.

Btw, my dd's hs principal tells all parents to regularly go through their teens' phones when they're asleep and not to assume that they're sleeping just because they tell you they're going to bed. Many times they're up late texting and doing other things while you're none the wiser. We live in a crazy crazy world. Forget trust.

amother

Mon, Dec 31 2012, 2:51 am

OP here. The boy is from a similar family to ours, but apparently is going against his parents values like dd is.
The truth is, I think I was just freaking out, and I didn't even think of what mummiedearest said which is so true. It could be, and I sincerely hope it is, that the boys has a crush on her or something and its not a full relationship. I called the therapist and told her what I wanted to discuss and work on, and she said she doesn't know if we can jump right in-She wants to first get to know dd. So for tomorrow we're just consulting and once she knows dd a little, we can talk about it if its not resolved. I will though, talk to dd tomorrow as many of you said-honestly and warmly that she can say whatever it is and I still love her but I want to know what it is. I just hope she responds well to it!! Nervous

amother

Mon, Dec 31 2012, 3:22 pm

I have a relative whose DD went thru a similar situation during her high school years, she had a boyfriend and was at risk for school expulsion from the BY-type school she attended had they found out....she and her parents went thru a very tough time.

I'm posting to suggest a resource for you that they found helpful: They spoke to Rabbi Gluck from Areivim in Monsey, and he gave them good advice on how to handle their relationship with their DD. Though it was very difficult, they were able to maintain their relationship, talk to their DD, and ultimately she chose, on her own, to put the relationship on hold.

Culturedpearls

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 5:35 am

I have no experience with teen girls. Just want to share what happened to a good friend of mine. She got involved with a boy when she was 15 & he was 18. She was a good girl looking for attention. Their parents found out. This was completely unacceptable to them. They couldn't break it up & didn't try. They allowed them to write to each other (before email/text) & to see each other only in each others homes. Everyone got to know each other & it was a safe environment for the kids. It was kept a secret from the community. They married 2 years later & have a beautiful family & all the IL's get along well.
Granted their reaction was damage control, but it was so smart under the circumstances.

grace413

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 7:14 am

Merrymom wrote:

No.

If we are discussing s-ex with our DDs we need to tell them the following: We believe that it's a wonderful thing but it is reserved for married couples. The foremost dangers of s-ex for our DDs are STDs and pregnancy (physically). The emotional danger is that boys will pretend they love girls in order to get s-ex and the girls will be hurt.

I seriously doubt that any hormonal teenager would be moved by "chayav karies" And why only the guy? Isn't the girl also chayav karies?

I'm a great believer in therapy but I disagree with you that every teen needs it. Therapists are not subsitute parents, they are counselors who can help both the kids and the parents deal with the difficulties of the teenage years. If OP or anybody else feels they need assistance, great. If the kids need if, definitely. But amazingly enough there are some people who get through these years without therapy.

Does anybody really think their teens go to sleep just because they've gone to their bedroom? I'm conflicted on the room-searching/phone checking issue.

chocolate chips

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 10:14 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

OMG!!!!! OP.......Thatts horrible... Hugs to you..

I say if you find out that she isnt the good little Bais Yacob girl you expected her to be , just disown her for good.. After all we all know that its all or nothing. If she isnt as Charedi and frum as you and your DH want her to be, its better to just sit shiva for her now...

Seriously, stop thinking about yourself... "This is not how we raised her all these years" and find out whats troubling her and maybe sshow her some unconditional love..

Sorry for the harsh tone. I deal with at-risk girls all the time, that have mothers like you...

It took me a while to get what you are saying, if I got what you are saying, I am trying to be DLKZ.
The worst thing to do to a girl who is going off the path of her parents is to disown her. I know a few people that happened to and the child is worse off because of it.
A parent is there to love and care for their child no matter what. If that means watching her doing things you don't approve of then fine but chances are she is going through a rough patch and needs help and wants attention. The worst thing to do then is to ignore her and pretend things are fine when you and everyone around knows that is not true.

I have a friend now whose daughter is modern and tries very hard to make sure everyone sees it. It is hard for her and her dh and for the family so they decided the way to get her to stop is to ignore. It made things so much worse but they don't see it! They get upset with me when I talk to her about things she wants to talk about. She thinks I am cool yet I am just like her mother only not her mother so she talks to me and all she wants is attention and someone to talk to.

I don't have teenage kids yet but I remember myself and I see my friends. Forcing therapy, and therapy in itself will not help now. You have to show her you are there for her. Tell her you might not approve of what she is doing but show her that whatever path she chooses to take in future life and now, you are there for her as a sound board and support system.

Hug

ElTam

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 11:49 am

I think you need to talk to her yourself. Heart to heart. Keeping in mind the whole time that the most important things is that you love her and she is your child for life.

If you need to talk to someone like the rav mentioned above, then do that. But I don't see why talking to your daughter has to involve a therapist. (I'm not saying you shouldn't go to the therapist, but if you are going to make the therapist the parent--which is kind of what you are doing--then you are parenting in 45 minute increments once a week. That is not going to get it done.)

For starters, you need to let her know that you are not as clueless as she thinks you are, and since she is going places in the car other than where she says, if she needs to go somewhere, you will drive her. She will freak out and scream most likely. You will need to stay calm and let her know that this is a result of her choice to be untruthful and go places she did not have permission to go. But you can't wait for a month until the therapist decides she can talk to her about things to deal with the fact that she is going to places that you don't know where she is. She thinks she's wise and mature, and while you are waiting for the therapist, she could be getting herself into a situation that is not so easy to undo.

b from nj

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 11:52 am

chocolate chips wrote:

naturalmom5 wrote:

CC, I think natural mom was being sarcastic when she recommended that the OP disown her DD & sit shiva!! That was at least the way I understood it. Am I correct, NaturalMom? In fact, the way I saw it, NaturalMom was imploring the OP to show her DD unconditional love so for SURE she was just being sarcastic by what she wrote at first!!!

BTW OP, so sorry that you now know for sure that your DD was in fact lying to you all along. As a parent, that is the WORST thing when our child breaks the trust we have with them & I agree with the others who recommended that you have a calm (if possible) heart to heart with her where you can let her know how absolutely HURT you are that she was dishonest with you & that now it will be harder for you to trust her b/c of HER deceitful actions. I would also discuss your concerns about the relationship & again, I just wish you so much hatzlacha with this challenging situation!!

morah

Tue, Jan 01 2013, 12:24 pm

I'm not up to this stage yet as a parent, but I teach high school, so I know a bit about how to deal with kids your daughter's age. At this point, I think you should let her know that you're on to her. However, if you simply crack down, she's going to push back hard in resistance and you'll lose her. You should try to find out also if she has a problem with religion in general, or if she just fell for the charms of a cute boy and is pushing boundaries because that's what kids her age do. This will tell you how to proceed in honest conversation. If religion is an issue, don't bring it up in conversation, rather stick to talking points about making good choices (show concern about physical/emotional health and safety); if religion is not really an issue, you can include spiritual health and safety in your talk. You can bring up possible long-term consequences of her behavior (seminary, shidduchim), but don't spend too much breath on that, because teens are not wired to calculate risk in that way. Best to stick with the here and now as much as possible. There will have to be some kind of consequence for the lying- revocation of some sort of privilege, likely driving (as that seems to be where she really abused your trust)- but don't just ground her for three months AND take away the phone AND the car keys AND forbid all contact with the boy etc. Stick with one thing, and then have a conversation about the rest, letting her know that you will leave the ball in her court to make the right choices.
I don't think you need a therapist at this point unless there are other concerns driving the relationship with this boy, such as poor self-esteem. If she's turning to him for some sort of approval because she feels awful about herself and thinks the attentions of a cute boy will fix her issues, then therapy would be in order. Otherwise, try to deal with it at home (with the guidance of someone experienced in raising teens if you feel you need it).
In terms of the consequences for your family given your community, I would definitely speak to the boy's parents. They need to be on board with dealing with this as well. Someone mentioned earlier that in a similar situation, the parents were able to keep things under wraps and guide the kids until they were old enough to get married and then "set them up" and it worked out well, no one was the wiser. This could be a good option assuming the relationship is healthy.

ruth

Thu, Jan 03 2013, 2:48 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

... I deal with at-risk girls all the time, that have mothers like you...

really? In what capacity? I would like to hear more eizot about parenting a dd like this. post or pm.

dear OP. I know you are still reeling from the shock. What has helped me is to daven to Hashem that I learn to do what is right l'shem shamayim (ie not out of shame or social stigma.) This is a hard place to reach, but we must operate from this place. I struggle and sometimes I handle this with more grace and maturity than other times. We moms are human but we must strive to elevate ourselves and not let comparisons with other families get us irrational, bitter and unloving.

One friend gave me horrible advice that I should just tell dd if she didn't hold by my standards than she would have to move out and support herself. Belive it or not, this friend is studying to be a social worker. G-d help our community with this kind of mentality. Good parenting isn't about controlling and manipulating. I don't have the answer, I just don't think this is the right approach. I feel that when a kid is deviating from our ways, it is time to hunker down and really work on ourselves.

A good, and very charedi friend of mine, told me that she was told that 16-19 is the roughest time for some teens. she saw how this was true for a couple of her kids. Sometimes I think it is harder when it is a girl though.

ruth

Thu, Jan 03 2013, 2:52 am

[quote="Merrymom"]First discussion that all mothers need to have with dd is that having s*x with a man/boy while a niddah makes him chayev karais. Is that what a girl would want for someone that they supposedly love? It's amazing how few singles know this basic fact.

Second is rush to a therapist with your dd. My dd tells me that she knows of two girls in her Bais Yaakov that are in a s*xual relationship. Both these girls are begging their parents to see a therapist but the parents refuse. Every teen should be seeing a therapist just to get through these years.

Now these girls are the just the ones that she knows about, she know of quite a few besides that are hanging out with boys. Do not bury your head in the sand and have your dh come pick her up from where she's supposed to be unexpectedly. Just because she says she's going to Shani's house doesn't make it so. Her boyfriend can easily pick her up from there or from a second place that the girls go to. Trust is not a right, it has to be earned and quite frankly your dd has lost hers.

Btw, my dd's hs principal tells all parents to regularly go through their teens' phones when they're asleep and not to assume that they're sleeping just because they tell you they're going to bed. Many times they're up late texting and doing other things while you're none the wiser. We live in a crazy crazy world. Forget trust.[/quote]

and then what is the parent supposse to do with the new found info?

amother

Thu, Jan 03 2013, 2:58 am

ruth wrote:

One friend gave me horrible advice that I should just tell dd if she didn't hold by my standards than she would have to move out and support herself. Belive it or not, this friend is studying to be a social worker. G-d help our community with this kind of mentality. Good parenting isn't about controlling and manipulating. I don't have the answer, I just don't think this is the right approach. I feel that when a kid is deviating from our ways, it is time to hunker down and really work on ourselves.

BH you were wise enough to not take this so-called advice. I admit, there were times when my child's behavior was so extreme (including but not limited to religious stuff) that I was sorely tempted to throw him out. Fortunately, I was able to get a grip and I had good advice from a psychologist.

Unless you think a child poses a real physical danger to you or other family members, find a way to not throw them out - don't even threaten it. That said, a friendly "maybe you'd like to spend this weekend with a friend" sometimes gives everybody a chance to cool down.

DrMom

Thu, Jan 03 2013, 3:54 am

I don't think interrogating your daughter (or retaining a therapist to interrogate her) is a healthy idea.

She knows you know something is up. Hopefully, she will straighten up now. If she senses you are caring and not out to interrogate and punish her, that will help.

Your goal should be to make sure she's on the right track, not to find out every single word she ever said to this boy, or to determine whether they ever held hands, ect. I know you view these things as problematic, but you will gain nothing by knowing vs not knowing every single minor detail.

I am under the assumption that she has not been fully physically intimate with this boy.