Not In Love with Israel

movingagain

Tue, Jan 29 2013, 4:50 am

Not a lesser jew just more normal imho. DH born here has no desire to return.

What I don't like?
*Tiny apartment
* rude mentality
* so many kids and dirt on the streets.
and so many more

What do I like?
*That erev shabbos you hear a song knowing shabbos is here.
*you live in a country where every yo tov you could feel in your bones.

But it is a hard life and no I wouldn't recommend it for anyone that wants it for fun. Spiritual reason ? oh yes!!

other then that I don't see why anyone would do it( No it's not an option for me to go back now)

amother

Tue, Jan 29 2013, 4:58 am

aniri wrote:

I think everything is too expensive there, apartments are small, you gotta go to the army , people are rude and etc

First of all, this is full of misconceptions.
Second of all, this thread makes me so sad Sad

I understand that it's not for everyone, but to have no desire to move here? Wish that things can be different before you'd even consider it, but to actually not like Israel?
Crying

I'm sad for the people that feel this way.

MountainRose

Tue, Jan 29 2013, 5:02 am

So weird, I literally just posted this same question in Controversial Topics. I don't want to live in Israel (I tried it for 6 months and hated it) and in a recent thread I have been insulted in so many ways for not wanting to live there.

And I don't think Amiri showed any misconceptions - I agree with all of them and my list is much longer!

mimivan

Tue, Jan 29 2013, 5:08 am

I live here, have learned to enjoy it, but I'm not for pressuring people to move here.
I know it is a mitzvah to live in Eretz haKodesh, but a mitzvah has its challenges, and I don't like beating people over the head about how terrible it is to live in chutz when, unless someone is sure they can make parnassah here and deal with the mentality, there is a huge risk of getting disillusioned and a yeridah.

I'm tired of being told that it is like committing the sin of the spies if one complains about anything here. The spies were complaining about the land and the fears of living in Eretz haKodesh. Complaining about political and religious corruption, the middle eastern "macho" mentality (which is just that Middle Eastern, not necessarily and inherently Jewish) and all the sinat chinam between groups is NOT the same kind of complaint. All of those things and more make it tough to live here, and I don't think it is a sin to complain if one wants to see positive change and think Yidden here can do better, nor is it a "sin" to say "I know I'll just get discouraged and end up not liking it and going back."

I don't think it is honest to paint only a rosy picture to people and guilt trip them about making aliyah. One needs to be honest about the difficulties. But if one can work through the difficulties (and getting involved in causes, political and religious to try to remedy the problems here in Israel can turn frustration into constructive action and be quite satisfying), it can finally seem to be what it really is; the best place to live.

Last edited by mimivan on Tue, Jan 29 2013, 5:13 am; edited 1 time in total

grace413

Tue, Jan 29 2013, 5:10 am

thatgirl wrote:

2 of my closest friends say they hate Israel and could never live there. I have a relative from Israel who says she doesnt want to live there ever because of the mantality there. So yes its common.

Ouch.

It's one thing to not want to live here, but to say they HATE Israel is taking it too far, IMHO.

movingagain

Tue, Jan 29 2013, 5:14 am

MountainRose wrote:

Do you mind posting a link to your topic? I'm interested in reading what they have to say

mimivan

Tue, Jan 29 2013, 5:14 am

grace413 wrote:

thatgirl wrote:

2 of my closest friends say they hate Israel and could never live there. I have a relative from Israel who says she doesnt want to live there ever because of the mantality there. So yes its common.

Ouch.

It's one thing to not want to live here, but to say they HATE Israel is taking it too far, IMHO.

yeah the "mentality" takes some getting used to, but I would never want to hear the word "hate." There is too much of that here, so don't bring more of it!

MountainRose

Tue, Jan 29 2013, 5:15 am

grace413 wrote:

thatgirl wrote:

2 of my closest friends say they hate Israel and could never live there. I have a relative from Israel who says she doesnt want to live there ever because of the mantality there. So yes its common.

Ouch.

It's one thing to not want to live here, but to say they HATE Israel is taking it too far, IMHO.

Would 'strongly dislike with a desire to avoid' be better?

amother

Tue, Jan 29 2013, 5:19 am

MountainRose wrote:

grace413 wrote:

thatgirl wrote:

2 of my closest friends say they hate Israel and could never live there. I have a relative from Israel who says she doesnt want to live there ever because of the mantality there. So yes its common.

Ouch.

It's one thing to not want to live here, but to say they HATE Israel is taking it too far, IMHO.

Would 'strongly dislike with a desire to avoid' be better?

You may as well say "hate", same thing.
I am truly sorry you did not have good experiences here, just please can you understand that plenty of people have amazing experiences here. I LOVE living here, and so do 99% of my friends that live here.
Maybe it has to do with what kind of community you belong to, or where you have lived or visited here.
Also, speaking lashon harah about eretz yisrael (or the jews that live there) is not to be taken lightly.

I am sad for you.

MountainRose

Tue, Jan 29 2013, 5:23 am

movingagain wrote:

MountainRose wrote:

Do you mind posting a link to your topic? I'm interested in reading what they have to say

You might be interested in some of the opinions expressed in this thread

But so far, no one has responded to my new thread yet. That might be because the poll hasn't gone live or because it's no fun to discuss a topic rationally without vilifying anyone. Not sure.

MountainRose

Tue, Jan 29 2013, 5:28 am

amother wrote:

MountainRose wrote:

grace413 wrote:

thatgirl wrote:

2 of my closest friends say they hate Israel and could never live there. I have a relative from Israel who says she doesnt want to live there ever because of the mantality there. So yes its common.

Ouch.

It's one thing to not want to live here, but to say they HATE Israel is taking it too far, IMHO.

Would 'strongly dislike with a desire to avoid' be better?

Pretty sure that lashon hara is something negative spoken about another person, not a geographic area. May have to double check in my Hiilchos Shmiras Haloshon. I do recognize that there are people happy to live in Israel - there are also people happy to live in Miami, Johannesburg, and Shanghai. That doesn't mean that there are no good reasons for not wanting to live in those places either.

lovelyjuli

Tue, Jan 29 2013, 5:30 am

Its hard to live here, but for me I just moved to a yshuv and you feel much more confortable like if you are part of a community, maybe if you live alone in a big city you can feel a little bit alone and lost.
Here mothers go to the park in the afternoon, they talk, they organize things for nashim...so I think we all have to find our place here there are so many options...dont give up!!

since I got here I had so many fustrations situations and sad feelings, but I hope the reward for me and my kids would be as big just for being in Hashem's house and for try our best!

movingagain

Tue, Jan 29 2013, 5:31 am

amother wrote:

MountainRose wrote:

grace413 wrote:

thatgirl wrote:

2 of my closest friends say they hate Israel and could never live there. I have a relative from Israel who says she doesnt want to live there ever because of the mantality there. So yes its common.

Ouch.

It's one thing to not want to live here, but to say they HATE Israel is taking it too far, IMHO.

Would 'strongly dislike with a desire to avoid' be better?

Don't be sad, it's ok.