Low materialism vs. Mommy's paying for it

syrima

Mon, Apr 08 2013, 4:43 pm

I was in a very similar situation when we bought our house. My mother offered us part of my inheritance money to renovate the kitchens and bathrooms which were um...vintage. Smile

I had to get past similar feelings, but we hired a designer/contractor and we "did it right".
Ten years and a few kids later, I am so happy we did. We have 2 stainless sinks and 2 dishwashers, and a Corian countertop. I use my kitchen to make healthy meals, and I don't stress about washing dishes from breakfast before I start with supper. I host many guests on Shabbos, from the community and beyond, and I make Pesach for my extended family. it is an investment that really pays off, and will enhance your shalom bayis in the long run. Bc DH is in the bais midrash, and where are you? IN THE HOME!
I will add, that as you go through the project, there will be choices about which you can "cut corners" and not choose the 'highest-end", as with appliance choice and tiles/flooring. That can save you a lot and you will be able to feel relatively frugal.
But your mom is right and it is so much easier to do it now before you settle in. haztlacha!

Raisin

Mon, Apr 08 2013, 6:05 pm

I have a beautiful kitchen with 2 sinks and 2 dishwashers, but one thing I do not have is granite counters. Just regular formica. I have several burn marks and the formica is peeling at the edges. Yes, things I can live with, and I don't know how difficult or not granite is to care for, but bear in mind formica might need replacing more often then granite.

I honestly cannot imagine coping with only one sink, I would certainly let your mother buy it for you.

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Apr 08 2013, 6:11 pm

Agree.

And, OP, it will NOT mean you were wrong to marry a Kollel guy. You have won that point.

Anyway it's a gift to the plumber, not to you. He has to eat too.

Enjoy your two sinks. I know you will serve Torah with them. They are useful, not frivolities.

And get good stuff. It works better. Such as a tea-water hot faucet. Whatever is durable. Buy once, buy right. Good tools work better.

It's ongoing expenses that are the enemy, not purchases of equipment.

Let Mama have her fun, but under your guidance.

Fox

Mon, Apr 08 2013, 9:00 pm

bbmom wrote:

Firstly, the things that Fox mentioned don't actually add value in dollar amounts to a house, they make the house more sellable at optimal market value. It's ALWAYS a good idea to keep a house sellable. You never know what will happen in the future (or even tomorrow!) and more sellable means sells faster.

Exactly! This is what I meant -- perhaps I didn't explain myself very well. It's really expensive and tough to take a house that hasn't been updated in decades and suddenly make it sellable at optimal market value. However, if you've been updating your house over time, your asset becomes far more liquid than a house that has become a "vintage fixer-upper" without its owners noticing.

Unless we're in the real estate business, most of us don't really know what adds value, what makes a house sellable, and what's just "extra." Some of the things I would assume would add value, don't; and vice versa.

I completely agree about installing a double-sink, BTW. This is not a particularly expensive renovation and will definitely make your job easier.

Dolly Welsh wrote:

It's ongoing expenses that are the enemy, not purchases of equipment.

Let Mama have her fun, but under your guidance.

Wait around, and you'll always find someone to say what I meant to say -- but in far fewer words!

Aetrsnrady

Mon, Apr 08 2013, 11:05 pm

I agree with the above posters. We try not to be the Jonses, too. However, when the opportunity (read: bracha from Hashem) came to renovate the kitchen, I went for it. 2 sinks. ( I contemplated 3, but decided it was over the top) 2 dishwashers. Quartz countertops (stain, scratch, burn resistant- very easy to clean) more storage (for DCs snacks and cereals!) This aspect of my life is now so much easier. Makes making yom tov (I now make all of them) and hosting much easier- time efficient so that I can spend more time on other things. The space us laid out better so more room for DCs to help cook ( and bond in the process). As others have said, it can be nice and well done without being ostentatious. Go for quality and durability.
Renovated kitchens are known to add the most value in a home.

familyfirst

Tue, Apr 09 2013, 12:04 am

Just echoing everyone's sentiment; go for two sinks. I would also go for the granite. Granite is practical and beautiful and doesn't have to be showy. And don't be surprised if granite is more popular than you think-even for Kollel couples, due to its practical advantages.

To make you feel better, there is a quote from our sages that "everything Hashem created in this world, is created to serve Him" and " the only reason Hashem made gold was for the Temple". I may be misquoting, but the idea is that if Hashem made materialism, and you use it to serve Him, then it is for good.

Use your kitchen for good things. Feed and nourish your family, host guests, keep kosher...and you can justify your granite.

And while you're at it, just choose one that you like!

amother

Tue, Apr 09 2013, 1:12 am

I am thinking about this from both viewpoints, such as my not wanting to accept a gift from my parents, to put in an expensive kitchen, because I *wanted to save up and do it alone* and then wanting to help my children, no questions asked, and they telling me they want to do what I did, save up and do their own thing....

Your children will see your choices every day, with every purchase you make. The home you live in becomes standard, kids don't notice or feel the difference, unless it's decorated very fancy with extra expensive decor.
Living the kollel way of life means a lot of different things, having 2 sinks today is not considered a luxury, nor is a granite countertop. 2 dishwashers? Maybe? Depends on family size and lots of other things.

Accepting your parents generosity is the smart thing to do, and living life with principles and bringing them more nachas is what they will appreciate in return. It can be done, I have been there and done that.
As Jews, we are supposed to live in a nice home, with a beautiful wife, and nice dishes. There is a pasuk about that. When we have in mind and state out loud that it's all lekovod shabbos, lekovod yom tov, lekovod hachnosas orchim, etc. than that money we spend is not counted in our yearly budget that we are given from HKBH. If we live with bitachon and emunah, and set that as our example to our children, we need not worry if we have a pretty kitchen, its not a sin to live nicely.

Neighbors will get jealous of you having several fur coats, summer mansions, a Mercedes or Lamborghini in your driveway, and ponies as birthday gifts for your children....not of the two sinks in your kitchen.

What they should all be really jealous of is your deep appreciation of the true values in life, that you have in yourself. Your parents should continue to enjoy their nachas, which I am sure they will continue to see.

ima m

Tue, Apr 09 2013, 4:30 am

I only have young kids at the moment and we are not rich but live with in our means and are very happy, but I love spending money on my kids to help them out, I dont buy new clothes for my self becasue I dont grow and there is nothing wrong with my old ones but nothing makes me more happy than buying clothes for my kids. I know this is a very different level to redoing a house but if I could afford to do that for my kids trust me it would not be out of pity it would be out of love

amother

Tue, Apr 09 2013, 10:04 am

OP here. New developments.

I told dh about this whole thing. He's pretty wary of it. Mostly because of the "not telling" thing, and particularly when it comes to his family. Also because he grew up with one sink and formica counters and feels that two sinks and granite is a huge luxury.

His family lives nearby, and while they haven't seen the house yet, and we could probably get away with doing the renovations before they see it (since it would be before we move in), they're definitely going to see it. And something like two new sinks is going to be pretty obvious.

His words: "If I could tell people -- 'Yeah, my mother-in-law insisted on paying for us to two have two sinks,' I wouldn't mind that. But for them to think we did it on our own...when as far as they know, we're living on two small salaries and within our means...just seems...awkward."

I hear what he's saying. Again, his parents have no idea about this money we have stored away. They know my parents are well-off, but also that they weren't supporting us. And we're not supposed to tell anyone about that either.

All these secrets make things easier but much more complicated at the same time. Sigh.

abby1776

Tue, Apr 09 2013, 10:52 am

amother wrote:

Why do you need to say anything. Why are people so nosey. I agree with Liba - if you have money to buy the house you have money to fix the kitchen a bit to make it easier for the Kosher cook. If his parents ask where did you get the money for that - isnt that very nosey? Cant you just say we had savings, which is true?

JoyInTheMorning

Tue, Apr 09 2013, 12:53 pm

amother wrote:

If your in-laws haven't seen the house yet, how would they know that it didn't have two sinks when you bought it? They might notice that the sinks themselves are new, but it's not the sinks that are expensive --- those are just a few hundred dollars --- it's the plumbing that is.

Anyway, I agree that two sinks are certainly not a luxury. I went from having two sinks to one during a recent move, and it makes life so much harder. I really look forward to having two sinks again sometime in the future. I lose so much time when I come home from work cleaning up the breakfast dishes before I can prepare supper. It makes everybody grouchier because supper is delayed. And it tires me out.

To the amother who wrote:

Quote:

As Jews, we are supposed to live in a nice home, with a beautiful wife, and nice dishes. There is a pasuk about that.

There's a pasuk about that? Really? Can you give me the source?

Barbara

Tue, Apr 09 2013, 1:34 pm

amother wrote:

Did granite countertops exist when he was a kid?

When I was a kid, most people didn't have dishwashers. Maybe he doesn't want one of them. And great-grandma didn't have an automatic clothes washer.

IOW, he's being silly. Especially if its to hide finances from his parents, when its none of their business.

If you're doing a kitchen renovation, and have the room, the cost of the upgrades is much lower than the cost of retrofitting later. In fact, a friend who has 2 ovens, dishwasher and sinks tells me that because the cost of cabinets is so high, there was very little price difference between 2 ovens and one oven plus extra cabinets.

Isramom8

Tue, Apr 09 2013, 3:18 pm

amother wrote:

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

To the amother who wrote:

Quote:

As Jews, we are supposed to live in a nice home, with a beautiful wife, and nice dishes. There is a pasuk about that.

There's a pasuk about that? Really? Can you give me the source?

It's not a pasuk, it's a statement in the Gemara.

It's not an obligation. It's a statement that these things bring more peace of mind.