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Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
Please choose which best describes you
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| I'm Charedi and I love to debate |
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2% |
[ 3 ] |
| I'm Charedi and I sometimes get involved in debates |
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16% |
[ 17 ] |
| I'm charedi and I almost never get involved in debates |
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38% |
[ 40 ] |
| I'm MO and I love to debate |
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10% |
[ 11 ] |
| I'm MO and I sometimes get involved in debates |
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14% |
[ 15 ] |
| I'm MO and I almost never get involved in debates |
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7% |
[ 8 ] |
| other |
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10% |
[ 11 ] |
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| Total Votes : 105 |
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amother
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 Thu, Apr 25 2013, 8:28 pm
Do you like to debate? do you enjoy controversial threads, and arguing your side?
Or do you prefer to let others speak up for you? do you avoid heated threads entirely?
there seems to be an overwhelming majority of MO posters on debate threads. Is that because majority of posters on this site are MO, or do charedi posters tend to avoid debate threads?
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flowerpower
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Thu, Apr 25 2013, 8:35 pm
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I try to avoid fighting.I steer clear of any controversal posts. Each time I open my mouth by mistake I regret it after. Even If I give a simple response.
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yo'ma
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Thu, Apr 25 2013, 8:35 pm
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I'm neither chareidi and I don't consider myself mo, just plain frum and I don't like to debate here or IRL.
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MimiMommy
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Thu, Apr 25 2013, 8:36 pm
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This reminded me of one of my favorite quotes from Alan Paton (Ah, But Your Land is Beautiful): "When I go up there, which is my intention, the Big Judge will say to me, Where are your wounds? And if I say I haven't any, He will say, Was there nothing to fight for? I couldn't face that question."
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auntie_em
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Thu, Apr 25 2013, 8:42 pm
I am MO and I hate debating. I sometimes read the heated threads, but I very rarely participate.
Why did you choose to be "amother" to post your question?
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MaBelleVie
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Thu, Apr 25 2013, 9:51 pm
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You seem to use the words "fight" and "debate" interchangeably. Why?
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amother
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Thu, Apr 25 2013, 10:04 pm
| auntie_em wrote: | | Why did you choose to be "amother" to post your question? |
so that it is not obvious whether I am charedi or MO in order to give this thread no biased slant whatsoever.
| Quote: | | You seem to use the words "fight" and "debate" interchangeably. Why? |
I used the word debate in the poll, and my message, because it is a neutral word, not implying good or bad intentions.
I used the word fighter in the title because it makes it a more powerful title.
any other questions?
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MaBelleVie
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Thu, Apr 25 2013, 10:06 pm
OK. I enjoy debating, but I don't enjoy having the same debate with the same person repeatedly. I don't like fighting at all 
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sequoia
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Thu, Apr 25 2013, 10:19 pm
Sometimes I join debates. Sometimes I don't.
I suspect there is no correlation with hashkafa.
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causemommysaid
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Thu, Apr 25 2013, 10:31 pm
im not chareidi and im not MO. Im JPF.
I dont have the patience for long paragraphs of debate.
I usually stick around for a few short comments and "like" a few posts and then I lose interest.
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wife2
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Thu, Apr 25 2013, 10:37 pm
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I dont know how many MO or chareidi there are but I find that a lot of ppl are in between. there may not be any as many real chareidim b/c they might not spend so much time on the internet and only check in once in awhile. usually when you debate with someone, you want them to listen to your side. because I have seen over and over again on each thread that every poster has an agenda and is unwilling to listen to the other side, I do not see a point in doing it. also, posters attack, insult, mock your words, and put you down. it is not just a logical argument, but it can be a personal attack on a poster. one person fighting against many is a set-up for disaster. why bother starting a lost battle? there is a reason people start controversial threads that they know may not be accepted by all as halacha - they are looking to fight. so if you fall into the bait and can't hold your own, you did exactly what they wanted - you fell into a trap.
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chani8
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Fri, Apr 26 2013, 12:43 am
Gee, I don't consider them 'debates'.
I like to think of them as discussions.
I enjoy a good discussion.
If you think of them as debates, no wonder they get so tense.
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flowerpower
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Fri, Apr 26 2013, 12:51 am
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How about the discussion turns into a debate???
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chani8
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Fri, Apr 26 2013, 1:02 am
Hey. I just noticed that the section is now titled "interesting discussions". See, they are meant to be discussions, not debates, and certainly not fights.
A discussion turns into a debate? Probably because some people are very black and white and think that there is a right and wrong on every subject. I dafka get sucked into discussions when I read that "all or nothing" or judgemental kind of thinking, just to push for critical thinking and tolerance.
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mimivan
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Fri, Apr 26 2013, 1:13 am
I like it until it deteriorates into ladies getting out their Shulchan Aruch's and playing Rav. I think the main bone of contention that gets boring is when a certain poster comes from a derech where she has learned something or gotten a psak from a Rav and that is "good enough" when the opposing side considers her a lamb to the slaughter and wants to question her Rav's psak by demanding source after source after source. Not all women come from communities where they are expected to learn as much as yeshivah bochurim, but it doesn't mean they are stupid. Some are taught that what their Rav says is what they should follow. Some are following family tradition. Other rabbis might pasken differently, but it is painful to see certain imamothers confronted and badgered because they follow their Rav.
My Rav says X is fine.
My Rav says Y is fine.
I don't ask a Rav, I pasken for myself. And I decided that Z is fine.
Okay, three rabbis(err...I mean two rabbis and one imamother "rabbi" armed with her shulchan aruch) pasken differently and it should be left at that. Why do people try to tear down other people's LORs? Kallah teachers etc?
If a poster is committed to try to tear down another's husband, rabbi or rebbetzin then that poster should keep an extra room available in her home for when this other poster "sees the light" and decides her Rav/husband/rebbetzin is such a fool and the community is full of fools that she just has to pick up and leave. If you are going to tear down a rabbi or a community in amother's eyes, you have the responsibility to give her a place to stay when she wants to come join your side.
I'm being a bit "satirical" but satire is an exaggeration, not a lie.
Wow, I've been feeling this way for years. Nice to finally get it off my chest.
I didn't take the poll because I am an American style Chabadnik (as opposed to the more chareidi style Israeli Lubavitchers...meaning I disagree with the Israeli chareidi position on many things, but I respect it) and therefore, am neither MO or chareidi.
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Isramom8
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Fri, Apr 26 2013, 1:21 am
Other. I debate, even though it makes me feel sick. Gotta do what you gotta do.
Imamother certainly has discussions, debates and fights, and not all are equal.
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notshanarishona
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Fri, Apr 26 2013, 1:29 am
I don't consider myself playing rav. I would never make up on my own that something is assur or mutar.
If a poster says something which is against halacha as far as every halacha sefer I have ever read, etc.. and doesn't bring a proper source but just says my rav said this shulchan aruch/gemara/etc. doesn't apply, then yes I want to know where they are coming from.
Not everyone who calls themselves rabbi is really learned and the first reason to question a rabbi if he is a proper rabbi is if he is making leniencies with no source to make his congregation happy.
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mimivan
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Fri, Apr 26 2013, 1:39 am
| notshanarishona wrote: | I don't consider myself playing rav. I would never make up on my own that something is assur or mutar.
If a poster says something which is against halacha as far as every halacha sefer I have ever read, etc.. and doesn't bring a proper source but just says my rav said this shulchan aruch/gemara/etc. doesn't apply, then yes I want to know where they are coming from.
Not everyone who calls themselves rabbi is really learned and the first reason to question a rabbi if he is a proper rabbi is if he is making leniencies with no source to make his congregation happy. |
But do you live in her community? Is this your rabbi? Why is it your job to make her change her way of doing things? (not just addressing you personally, but posters who feel their job is to "enlighten" people)
for instance, there was a thread a while back in which amother was talking about certain bedroom chumros. She flat out was not believed. Called a liar, because other women from her "derech" had learned differently. Who's to say she is delusional/lying? Is she trying to write a best seller making up lies about her community? No, she's just posting what she learned from her kallah teacher. And maybe she did learn what she said she learned? Who's to say such a person is lying and who is to tell them not to listen to their rav or kallah teacher? If a poster is going to do that, she better vacuum out her guest room, because if she feels it is her mission to make amother feel disenchantment from her community, she had better give her a place to stay. 
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shabbatiscoming
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Fri, Apr 26 2013, 1:45 am
| notshanarishona wrote: | I don't consider myself playing rav. I would never make up on my own that something is assur or mutar.
If a poster says something which is against halacha as far as every halacha sefer I have ever read, etc.. and doesn't bring a proper source but just says my rav said this shulchan aruch/gemara/etc. doesn't apply, then yes I want to know where they are coming from.
Not everyone who calls themselves rabbi is really learned and the first reason to question a rabbi if he is a proper rabbi is if he is making leniencies with no source to make his congregation happy. | but like mimivan said, are you part of her community? There are many different types of frum women on this site and thereby there are many different shitot on different things, so if, lets say, a MO posts something according to her shita why is that not good enough?
And why does it mean that the rav is not learned, just because it is a different shita than you follow?
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notshanarishona
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Fri, Apr 26 2013, 1:49 am
If a poster says a psak which based on my mesorah is kefirah, then I want to know what that is based on so I and others don't get confused.
Also, I can't stand when someone writes something as halacha when it is a specific heter which was given to them for a specific reason and doesn't apply to every one else.
A "Rabbi" who took a 2 year smicha course and never got shimmush from a talmid chacham and then doesn't keep up with his learning is generally not the person to go to for piskei halacha.
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