should I vax my kids for HEP B?

granolamom

Mon, May 13 2013, 7:47 pm

seeker wrote:

granolamom wrote:

morah wrote:

Not weighing in on the vaccine itself, just a major pet peeve of mine: please don't assume that these things are irrelevant for forum Jews. Unfortunately, forum Jews can get stds too, and it doesn't have to be from some wildly implausible Scenario either. Some people are jerks and cheat on their spouses. Some people marry "experienced" BTs. And believe it or not, some people slip up and have premarital relations. And WRT to that last one: I plan to teach my kids that it is wrong and big aveira. But if one of them decides not to listen, I want them to face consequences from me, not some life-altering disease.

That's true, but I'm talking about newborns. If a baby has hep b positive parent(s) that's one thing.

Op said this:

Quote:

I understand in the non-jewish world vaxing before they start being s-xually active. in my world that means before getting married, not at age 10!!!!

so I guessed she wasn't just talking about newborns. And she didn;t put it in NP either, so I feel very comfortable saying that while it's probably overkill for a typical newborn, it's not nearly that far-fetched at 10 (and no, unfortunately in today's climate I don't think rape is quite as unlikely as we'd want to assume)

oh, I missed that, I'm on the same page now. but I still refuse to buy into a rape-vaccine. it smacks of fear mongering to me. if thats truly a 'reason' for the vax, I want to see the numbers (how many kids under puberty are raped -assuming kids over puberty would be vaxed anyway- and how many rapists are hep b positive and what is the rate of transmission). but I can see how, if youre planning to give the vax anyway, that might factor in your decision. as the ex-ped said, one less thing to worry about.

suzyq

Tue, May 14 2013, 9:32 am

I don't have my newborn vaccinated for Hep B, because I think there is a lot more risk involved in a baby who is a day old having a vaccine than my newborn contracting Hep B. This is not being blind to risks or thinking that because we are frum, we are exempt - it is simply looking at the risk factors involved. (And, as I understand it, the Red Cross does screen all blood donations for Hep B, and has been doing so even before they did for HIV, do that isn't a risk.)

I will have my children vaccinated for Hep B when they get a little older and are at the point of being faced with riskier decisions. But at a day old, I think it's somewhat ridiculous and I have wondered what group of doctors decided it was necessary for the general population and why that necessity outweighed the risk of having a vaccine at such an early date.

1222

Wed, May 22 2013, 5:05 pm

Also, all imamothers should know there is no virus in this vaccine. There is nothing to worry about.

All it is is a single protein. The guy who made the vaccine spoke to my class 2xs.

It's a lot more safe than the polio vaccine and we give that to our kids! The risk of polio in the US today is almost laughable bh!

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, May 22 2013, 5:27 pm

Right, its active ingredient is a viral envelope protein, but that's not all it contains. Look at the ingredients, and then tell me it's one single item.

I know I have seen specific reactions to aluminum in shots in some of my children. The Hep B vaccine has an incredible amount of aluminum in it. I'm not saying one shouldn't get it; I'm just pointing out that it's misleading to believe it's one single, safe item stuck in a syringe.

Ema of 5

Wed, May 22 2013, 5:33 pm

suzyq wrote:

youre right that blood is screened, but sometimes tainted blood gets through anyway.

*I dont vaccinate my infants, I wait until they are a few months old.

1222

Thu, May 23 2013, 4:09 am

You are def right. It's not just the envelope protein, an adjuvant is added as well. 'alum' is the only one approved by the FDA in pple. Just injecting a protein does not generate immune memory. Thus, every vaccine contains alum. Alum stimulates the immune system.

but, if your nervous about the amount of aluminum, we would have to get rid of aluminum foil and pans. Aluminum doesn't really hurt pple. In fact, pple who are like 60 now had it in their fillings when they were lil pple.

The inj just is the envelope protein and aluminum and magnesium hydroxide to stim the immune response. It's completely safe. Pple do have hypersensitivities to vaccinies inc my lil one. She gets fevers, can't sleep and feels miserable. But, it's much better than the diseases and it's adds to herd immunity which helps to block mutation of these bugs and reemergence.

I know their is a general misconception about vaccines but if only there were approved vaccines for things like mtb and staph (coming soon!!) there would be so much less death and suffering in the world. I don't want to say what I do here bc it's anonymous. But, I play my part eberyday in the fight to understand these things.

tissues

Thu, May 23 2013, 7:02 am

1222 wrote:

There's a HUGE difference between injecting aluminum straight into the bloodstream and baking on aluminum pans, which for the record, most health-minded people also try to avoid (at least by using parchment paper.

And regarding the "general misconception" about vaccines. What a nice way to put down something which is a major controversial debate with pros and cons on both sides of the issue! Misconception indeed...

Last edited by tissues on Thu, May 23 2013, 7:42 am; edited 1 time in total

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, May 23 2013, 7:49 am

There is no "herd immunity" argument for something like Hep B for this to even be a debate.

Babies who do not get immunized for it are not putting other children at risk because of it. It's an individual protection, at least at this age.

It's absolutely misleading to say that aluminum is a completely safe ingredient. It has been linked to cognitive disorders such as Alzheimers, and neuropathologists are still studying that. There is so much still unknown about the neurotoxicity of it, and it is foolish to pretend it does nothing to a body.
Now, we have to take the knowns and unknowns and make a risk/benefit analysis for our children what is in their best interest. But to deny there are risks is simply dangerous.

And one last thing: your ingredient list is still incomplete. In the Recombivax version of the Hep B vaccine for example, these are the ingredients:
Amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate, amino acids, dextrose, formaldehyde, mineral salts, potassium aluminum sulfate, soy peptone, yeast protein

1222

Thu, May 23 2013, 9:44 am

I usually don't speak strongly or have strong opinions. But, you are basically coming out strongly advising pple against st which you don't know about.

I'm a scientist. I have injected this stuff into many different types of animals. I know it's advantages and disadvantages much better than anything you can look up online. I am very familiar with the field of immune response to every part of alum how and why thy work. Its too complex too explain without a background. I am friendly with the guy who made the vaccine who is currently at the NIH and know full well about everything in it. This vaccine is safe, period.

Please don't make other parents nervous stay away. People can get sick cv. Ive seen many sick patients from this virus. Our job is histadlus!

Cookies n Cream

Thu, May 23 2013, 10:29 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

There is no "herd immunity" argument for something like Hep B for this to even be a debate.
Babies who do not get immunized for it are not putting other children at risk because of it. It's an individual protection, at least at this age.

It's absolutely misleading to say that aluminum is a completely safe ingredient. It has been linked to cognitive disorders such as Alzheimers, and neuropathologists are still studying that. There is so much still unknown about the neurotoxicity of it, and it is foolish to pretend it does nothing to a body.
Now, we have to take the knowns and unknowns and make a risk/benefit analysis for our children what is in their best interest. But to deny there are risks is simply dangerous.

And one last thing: your ingredient list is still incomplete. In the Recombivax version of the Hep B vaccine for example, these are the ingredients:
Amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate, amino acids, dextrose, formaldehyde, mineral salts, potassium aluminum sulfate, soy peptone, yeast protein

This, and FTR I am very pro-vaccinination.

yogabird

Thu, May 23 2013, 10:31 am

greenhelm wrote:

tissues wrote:

Hep B is injected intramuscularly, not intravenously.

I imagine that makes it even worse. Toxins probably get absorbed by muscle tissue, whereas the blood has SOME capacity to detox.

(a chiropractor I once visited was able to tell I was never vaccinated just from how my muscle tissue felt to the touch)

Cookies n Cream

Thu, May 23 2013, 10:33 am

yogabird wrote:

greenhelm wrote:

tissues wrote:

Hep B is injected intramuscularly, not intravenously.

INteresting point.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, May 23 2013, 10:44 am

1222, in any of my posts, did you see me "strongly advising ppl against" anything?
I didn't advise against anything, kal v'chomer "strongly".

And I do venture to say I know "something" about what I am talking about. What have I said that you have been able to refute and say is false? All you've said is "I'm a scientist, so I know what I'm talking about, so be quiet." I'm just providing information and letting parents make informed choices.

(Signed someone who actually brought a child to the doctor today to give a Hep B vaccine.)

tissues

Thu, May 23 2013, 2:14 pm

1222 wrote:

You sound like you are an omnipotent g-d. "I know more than you, so shut up." Sorry, won't go. If you can explain, I'll listen. Otherwise, I'm sorry to be rude, but you sound like some unpopular doctors out there...