Rental apartments and pets

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Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions

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FranticFrummie

Tue, Jun 04 2013, 3:12 am

Is it possible to rent an apartment in Israel if you have two small dogs (very quiet and laid back). If so, how much do you think a pet deposit would be? How do you even go about negotiating this?

I've looked through literally hundreds of listings, and I never see pets mentioned anywhere. We're not quite ready to buy yet, we want to wait and see how the shekel performs agains the US dollar and the British pound. DH thinks that the currency is inflated, and that in a few years it may come down.

DD will be heartbroken if we can't take the dogs, and I can't imagine leaving these sweet little babies behind.

grace413

Tue, Jun 04 2013, 3:27 am

Depends on the individual landlord. Rental apartments here are owned by individuals - there is no rental housing as you know it in the States.

I am trying to phrase this delicately - many Charedi neighborhoods do not have any dogs at all.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jun 04 2013, 4:09 am

grace413 wrote:

No need to be delicate, I'm WELL aware of the fact that I'm "not normal". LOL Even my yeshivish friends give me a hard time about it. What can I say, I'm a BT who grew up with pets all the time. They really help with my anxiety, especially since DH travels for work, often months at a time. I could understand having a problem with walking a Rottweiler down the street, but two little housebound Chihuahuas - nobody's even going to notice. I can put out a piddle-pad on the merpesset, and let them go there. I could also take a ground floor apartment, that would be the easiest solution.

I figured Tzefat would be a good fit for me, because there are so many Americans there, and I've heard that many of them have brought their dogs over. I probably should ask over at the Yahoo group, too.

amother

Tue, Jun 04 2013, 4:19 am

I'm sure you could find a place in Tzfat, but it may take you a bit longer and may cost you more. You might want to look on the outskirts of Tzfat, in neighborhoods like Ramat Menachem Begin and Ramat Razim, where you can rent small houses or garden apartments with a yard. You do need a car there.

Look at yad 2 http://www.yad2.co.il/Nadlan/r.....F4%FA

shalhevet

Tue, Jun 04 2013, 5:24 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

grace413 wrote:

I think you have no idea what mainstream chareidi people think of dogs. No one will care if they are the sweetest, tiniest, quietest dogs ever born. If you live in a mainstream chareidi area (I don't know which areas of Tzfat fit that) they will not be tolerated. Depending on the neighbours you might get polite or not so polite requests to get rid of them. Most chareidi children who grow up in cities are petrified of dogs, even if you think they are the cutest pets out.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jun 04 2013, 5:55 am

shalhevet wrote:

FranticFrummie wrote:

grace413 wrote:

Oh believe me, I know. They're not shy to tell me that I'm quite insane, and ruining all of my social possibilities. You'd think I was breeding pot bellied pigs for fun and profit! Rolling Eyes

It makes me sad to see children so scared. It also puts them in great danger. Running and screaming is exactly what stimulates the prey drive in dogs (mostly breeds with strong herding instinct). Parents do their children a great disservice by not teaching them the safe way to encounter a dog. If one hopped the fence, got off leash, or was running through a park, a child could get badly hurt if they reacted in a panic, as opposed to holding their ground.

I have always taken time to stop what I'm doing if a child is interested in getting to know my dog. I will teach them the correct way to approach, ask the adult if the dog is friendly, to speak quietly and show the back of their hand so the dog can sniff. If the dog is calm and relaxed, then I show the child how to pet the dog on the side, NEVER on the head - at least not at first.

The little girls I have now are puppy mill rescues, and they are afraid of their own shadow. I would never take them out until they got over their fear of strangers. I can't even walk them on a leash yet. They will lie down, curl up in a tiny ball, and refuse to move. Poor babies! They're perfectly happy to stay in the house with me, and only go outside when they absolutely have to go.

I also have NO problem with locking them in the bedroom when company comes. I don't believe in forcing my pets on anyone. "People before Pets" is my motto. I wouldn't be too thrilled if someone insisted I cuddle their pet tarantula, I don't care HOW tame it is! Don't give me that cr*p about how "gentle and misunderstood they are", it's a humongous spider, for Pete's sake!

So yeah, I do get it, and I'm respectful.

Liba

Tue, Jun 04 2013, 6:05 am

I really don't think you fully get it.

The likely hood of you having people over, especially your children's friends, with dogs in the house, is about as high as if you advertised that you sold assault rifles from your house.

Offering to lock them up isn't likely to help at all unless you live near like minded chutznikim.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jun 04 2013, 6:10 am

Liba wrote:

Chutznikim? I'm not familiar with that word. Does it mean crazy people? LOL

DD gets bored at home, being an only child. She prefers to play at other people's houses anyway, our even better, outside at the playground. I work from home, so honestly if my house isn't full of squealing little girls, I'm not going to be too heartbroken about it. I would like to have Shabbos guests, but I have a feeling that with my personality, I'm only going to attract people who are as offbeat as I am anyway. Wink

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jun 04 2013, 6:21 am

BTW, I know I'm going off topic, but hey, it's my thread. Very Happy

Do blind Israelis use guide dogs? If so, how do they manage? I have seen men guided by bochurim, is that the norm?

Liba

Tue, Jun 04 2013, 6:23 am

chutznikim are people from outside of Israel, non Israelis.

Rabbits are acceptable for some reason, as are birds, but dogs are a huge big deal...

kalsee

Tue, Jun 04 2013, 6:43 am

In RBS a few chareidi families have dogs. Anglo, obviously. It is making a real difference in how the kids in the neighborhood relate to dogs.

Tamiri

Tue, Jun 04 2013, 7:28 am

If you are relying on currency fluctuations to live and get by, you may also want to check out what it costs to feed a dog and provide it with medical care....

amother

Tue, Jun 04 2013, 7:33 am

Liba wrote:

That's only if she choose a charedi school and charedi neighborhood.
There are some 100% charedi neighborhoods in Tzfat, but most of Tzfat is mixed secular/DL/mesorati/charedi. I would advise OP to find a place in a mixed area. Anyway, I don't think anyone will rent her out a place in Maor Chaim or the like if she has dogs.

Same with the school. If she doesn't want her dd to be the strange American with dogs, I wouldn't send to a Beit Ya'akov. A place like the chabad school would be less of an issue, because they have a few girls from all over the spectrum. AFAIK they accept everyone, but most of the girls are Chabad girls.

In Noam or a DL school, the classmates would probably love to pet cute chihuahuas.

amother

Tue, Jun 04 2013, 7:39 am

shalhevet wrote:

FranticFrummie wrote:

grace413 wrote:

You don't know much about Tzfat. What you are saying is not so relevant there. There is no mainstream charedi area. The whole city is mixed, and there are dogs all over.A very small minority of the charedi kids are afraid of them. The dog will definitely be tolerated in all neighborhoods and I do not imagine any requests to get rid of the dog unless it is disruptive and barking loudly at night.
I don't know how landlords feel about pets, but remember here, in general, apartments are without furniture or any appliances or closets,so there isn't much a dog can do. A well taken care of dog shouldn't be that much of an issue.
As far as your daughter and having friends over it depends on the school. You should be able to find like minded people who will be fine with their kids over a house with a dog in most schools but not the yiddish or Kaplan (litvish) you would send your DD to.

What I said though is not about charedim outside of tzfat.

Fanatic, that yahoo group is not very active. There is a facebook group, Tzfat Chevre, and an email list called tzfatline that is much more active. The local nefesh b'nefesh person is Tzippy Oppenheimer.

ewa-jo

Tue, Jun 04 2013, 8:19 am

We have a cat, I know it's different from a dog, but I will try to answer your question as best as I can.

No, nobody talks about pet deposits when they advertise apartments because Israelis usually don't have pets. It's more something that people from overseas do... or secular Israelis.

That being said, you will just have to ask the landlord one-on-one about the situation.

We've never had a clause in the lease about having a cat/paying deposits or anything like that. Israelis are more relaxed about things like rental contracts (IMO) and things are oftentimes assumed, but not written down. Of course, you are responsible for repairing anything that your dogs (or kid.. or you) damage in the apartment.

I don't think landlords care so much here. That's just my opinion. We never asked our last landlord about pets... he came over to our old place so we could sign a contract and he saw our cat (big fat orange house cat) and say 'Oh, you have a Garfield" and that was all.

hila

Wed, Jun 05 2013, 1:41 am

As they stated above - you will be more accepted in a Dati Leumi area. No one would look twice in my town at a family with dogs.

Nor would they judge you for the number of kids you have, or the colour or type of your socks/tights/shoes/headcovering etc.

Maybe rethink the Chareidi only environment.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jun 05 2013, 1:42 am

I can't thank you gals enough, you're a goldmine!

Fortunately, these little dogs are in good health, and barely eat a thing (the smaller one only weighs four pounds). My biggest problem in the US is that almost every dog food made contains a mix of meat and milk. Pesach is a nightmare! I have to buy the most expensive brands of dog food, the type made for dogs with allergies. I'm hoping in Israel that at least there will be a better chance of finding a food that is halachically acceptable.

I definitely want to find a "mixed" area, where people are tolerant of folks who come from different backgrounds. I fell in love with Tzfat the moment I stepped off the bus. It was so wonderful to see very frum, religious people who were artists, musicians, some even wearing tie-dyed shirts! I almost felt like I was back at a Greatful Dead concert, but instead of a secular party, it had been elevated to something incredibly holy and wonderful. I've never felt so at home anywhere else in the world, and I've traveled extensively.

I want to go HOME!

hila

Wed, Jun 05 2013, 1:54 am

Go for Tsfat if you can - but I would not call them "chareidi"

But - it is not easy to find work nearby, the social services are minimal, and it may be very quaint - but as you get older and sicker (chas veshalom) it is hard to get around.

I guess renting will help you decide. When do you arrive ? and do you need a place for the first few days ?

You DO NEED SUPPORT here. Dont come without a support system . Imamother is wonderful and we are real people - but you need a real life friend / family to cry on, depend on, and laugh with.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jun 05 2013, 2:24 am

hila wrote:

We may make a pilot trip around Succot, and my rebbetzin has friends who live there. Baruch Hashem, I'm a very outgoing and friendly person, and easy to get to know. I make friends quickly. DH is more of an introvert, and travels a lot for work. When he's at home, he just wants to sit and learn as much as he can. He's never really felt the need to seek out a chavrusa, a "buddy to hang out with" or anything like that. DD is super friendly, and loves everyone. Even mean kids she tries to win over, and will forgive at the drop of a hat. I think we have good personalities to handle the stress of a change of culture.

We already live a modest life, and don't have a lot of need for material comforts. "Being content with what you have" is our motto. Even so, I'm sure we're practically rich by Israeli standards. In my life, I've been well off financially, I've been desperately poor, and I've even been homeless. I lived through it all, and come to realize that attitude is everything.

amother

Wed, Jun 05 2013, 2:26 am

hila wrote:

Go for Tsfat if you can - but I would not call them "chareidi"

There are plenty of charedim in tzfat. Some completely mainstream and some less so, but all are open to living mixed and socializing to some extent with all other types of Jews. I don't know why you decide that that means they are not charedi. There is a litvish kehilla, a chassidishe kehilla, based in the sanz beis medrash, a breslov kehilla, many sefardi charedim and of course many chabadnikim. There are more out of the box people here, but that doesn't make those that identify as charedi, not charedi.

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