Using your own common sense

penguin

Fri, Jun 07 2013, 4:40 pm

I will take the liberty of quoting a few very relevant words from the article, titled “The Common-Sense” Rebellion against Torah Authority.

Jews defer only to recognized Torah scholars in the interpretation of Jewish Law. Today, many individuals claim the right to exercise their own common sense in determining the relevance and format of contemporary Judaism, despite the fact that they are hardly Biblical and Talmudic scholars. Synagogue ritual committees and popular magazine articles debate the continued usefulness of various religious practices and explore the possibilities of reformulating Judaism in line with modern thought. These self-styled “poskim” concede their lack of formal training in Jewish texts and sources, but they insist nonetheless on their right to decide fundamental religious questions on the basis of “common sense.”

This is not a recent phenomenon. It dates back to the earliest period of Jewish history, to the very generation which received the Torah at Mt. Sinai. Not very long after that event, the Torah (Num. Cap 16) related, Korah led a rebellion against Moses, and Hazal imply that he sought to replace Moses as the teacher and leader of Israel. Korah publicly challenged the halakhic competency of Moses and ridiculed his interpretations of Jewish law as being contrary to elementary reason. Citing the Tanhuma, Rashi records the following clever ploy of Korah:

What did he do? He assembled two-hundred and fifty distinguished men and women… and he attired them in robes of pure blue wool. They came and stood before Moses and said to him: “Does a garment that is entirely blue still require tzitzit or is it exempt?” Moses replied that it did required tzitzit. Whereupon, they began to jeer at him: “Is that logical? A robe of any other color fulfilsl the tzitzit requirement merely by having one of its threads blue. Surely a garment which is entirely blue should not require an additional blue thread!” (Rashi, Nu. 16:1).

(He goes on to quote the second provocation of the house filled with Torah scrolls requiring a mezuzah, saying that “Korah insisted that to require a mezuzah under such circumstances violated elementary logic.

Korah was a demagogue motivated by selfish ambitions. […] Now, we know that every rebellion against authority needs an ideology to arouse the fervor of the people and sustain its momentum. It needs a slogan or a motto which projects a noble idea to replace the intolerable status quo. The rallying cry which Korah chose was “common sense.” He proclaimed that all reasonable people have the right to interpret Jewish law according to their best understanding: “For all the community are holy”. (Num 16:3) In down-to-earth logic, the lowliest woodcutter is the equal of Moses. This appeal to populism evokes considerable support because it promises freedom from centralized authority; it flatters people’s common intelligence and it approves the right of each Jew or group of Jews to follow their own individual judgment. […]
Korah was an intelligent man, pike’ah haya (Rashi, ibid. v. 7). He would certainly concede that there were specialized fields in which only experts who have studied extensively over many years are entitled to be recognized as authorities. The intrusion of common-sense judgments in these areas by unlearned laymen would be both presumptuous and misleading. Korah would not have dared to interfere with Bezalel’s architectural and engineering expertise in the construction of the Tabernacle, the Mishkan, because construction skills were clearly beyond his competence. Today, reasonable people concede the authority of mathematicians, physicists, and physicians in their areas of expertise, and would not think of challenging them merely on the basis of common sense. Why, then, are so many well-intentioned people ready to question the authority of the Torah scholar, the lamdan, in his area of specialized knowledge?

Well, did you think that Centrist Orthodoxy subscribed to “Da’as Torah”?

This piece is quoted in a Shiur on Parchas Korach from Rav Shalom Rosner (available at
http://www.ou.org/torah/article/Korach), and he quote from the sefer “Reflections of the Rav”, Volume 1. (It was published by KTAV Publishing House, Inc., Jan 1, 1993. According to Google, this is Rabbi Besdin's first volume of "reconstructions" of the thought of "the Rav," Rabbi J.B. Soloveitchik. You can read the entire article at
http://books.google.com/books?.....mp;q=
(Scroll down to a list of pages you can view and select Authority 1973 p.139-).

DrMom

Sat, Jun 08 2013, 2:11 pm

Quote:

Korah was a demagogue motivated by selfish ambitions. […] Now, we know that every rebellion against authority needs an ideology to arouse the fervor of the people and sustain its momentum. It needs a slogan or a motto which projects a noble idea to replace the intolerable status quo. The rallying cry which Korah chose was “common sense.” He proclaimed that all reasonable people have the right to interpret Jewish law according to their best understanding: “For all the community are holy”. (Num 16:3) In down-to-earth logic, the lowliest woodcutter is the equal of Moses. This appeal to populism evokes considerable support because it promises freedom from centralized authority; it flatters people’s common intelligence and it approves the right of each Jew or group of Jews to follow their own individual judgment. […]

1. There is a difference between making decisions on your own because you are capable of doing so vs making decsions of your own because you reject authority and seek personal power. There is also a differnce between formulating a psak and looking something up.

Quote:

Today, reasonable people concede the authority of mathematicians, physicists, and physicians in their areas of expertise, and would not think of challenging them merely on the basis of common sense. Why, then, are so many well-intentioned people ready to question the authority of the Torah scholar, the lamdan, in his area of specialized knowledge?

2. I would consult a mathematician if I needed help with an advanced mathematical topic, not if I needed to balance my checkbook, or perform a simple integral. Even if it were something more involved, I may consult a math textbook (or the internet) on my own if I need extra help. I have a decent background in math, and wouldn't need to bother an expert in the field unless it were a particularly esoteric or advanced topic. And then I would ask the mathematician to explain the answer to me so that I learn from the experience.

chani8

Sat, Jun 08 2013, 2:25 pm

Korach was an idiot. He wasn't logical at all.

DrMom

Sat, Jun 08 2013, 2:26 pm

I should add that this thread stated as a response to a discussion about Daas Torah.

Although I am far from an expert on the biographies of gedolim, I was curious about this topic, because your description on Rav Solovechik's views on daas torah seemed at odds with what I learned about MO hashkafa. I found this interesting expanation of The Rav's views on daas torah, whch seem to contradict the notions your quotation appears to attribute to him:

http://www.rabbimanning.com/wp.....h.pdf

Rav Joseph B Soloveitchik as a Posek of Post-Modern Orthodoxy, Rabbi Walter Wurzburger, Tradition 29:1 (1994)

Quote:

But even more important is the Rav's general approach to the nature of rabbinic authority, which in his view was limited to the domain of pesak halakha. He respected the right of individuals to form their own opinions and attitudes with respect to matters which were not subject to halakhic legislation. Because of his respect for human autonomy and individuality, he never wanted to impose his particular attitudes upon others or even offer his personal opinions as Da'at Torah.28 On the contrary, when I turned to him for guidance on policy matters, which at times also involved halakhic considerations, he frequently replied that I should rely upon my own judgment. Similarly, whenever the Rav expounded on his philosophy of halakha, he stressed that these were merely his personal opinions which he was prepared to share with others but which did not possess any kind of authoritative status.

This non-authoritarian approach runs counter to current trends in the Orthodox community which seeks
authoritative guidance from halakhic luminaries on all policy matters. Nowadays, fundamentalism flourishes
because, as Eric Fromm has pointed out, there are many who desperately seek an escape from personal
responsibility. Although the Rav's approach does not satisfy the demand for dogmatic pronouncements, in the long run it holds the greatest promise for those seeking to combine commitment to halakha with a selective acceptance of the ethos of modernity, which emphasizes the preciousness of individual autonomy and freedom.

According to the Rav, these "modern" values are implicit in the biblical and rabbinic doctrine of kevod ha-beriot, the dignity due to human beings by virtue of their bearing the tzelem Elokim.

relish

Sun, Jun 09 2013, 10:29 am

chani8 wrote:

Korach was an idiot. He wasn't logical at all.

Actually, Korach was such a great man before his downfall, that if he would've waited a bit there he would've been assigned to be Levi gadol.

chani8

Sun, Jun 09 2013, 11:15 am

relish wrote:

chani8 wrote:

Korach was an idiot. He wasn't logical at all.

Actually, Korach was such a great man before his downfall, that if he would've waited a bit there he would've been assigned to be Levi gadol.

His reasoning on the techeilis is not logical at all.

greenfire

Sun, Jun 09 2013, 11:33 am

his reasoning was logical to him ... the entire garment is blue reminding us that hashem is everywhere then why would one need a string of blue ...

there might be a more simple answer that wouldn't have provoked his 'idiocy' - the 4 corners of the garment with the actual tzitzis is what reminds us that hashem is everywhere ...

if someone has a question it should be addressed rather than said one is stupid ... without questions one gains no wisdom

PinkFridge

Sun, Jun 09 2013, 11:59 am

chani8 wrote:

relish wrote:

chani8 wrote:

Korach was an idiot. He wasn't logical at all.

Actually, Korach was such a great man before his downfall, that if he would've waited a bit there he would've been assigned to be Levi gadol.

His reasoning on the techeilis is not logical at all.

"Ahava/sinah mekalkelel es hashura..."

seeker

Sun, Jun 09 2013, 12:11 pm

chani8 wrote:

Korach was an idiot. He wasn't logical at all.

I'd be a lot more careful how I refer to biblical characters. I am almost speechless at this remark.

the world's best mom

Sun, Jun 09 2013, 12:12 pm

chani8 wrote:

relish wrote:

chani8 wrote:

Korach was an idiot. He wasn't logical at all.

Actually, Korach was such a great man before his downfall, that if he would've waited a bit there he would've been assigned to be Levi gadol.

His reasoning on the techeilis is not logical at all.

So I guess that all Imamothers are totally logical. No idiots here, only geniuses. That's why none of us need to ask Shailos, right?

runninglate

Sun, Jun 09 2013, 12:49 pm

chani8 wrote:

Korach was an idiot. He wasn't logical at all.

as mentioned in the first post, rashi specifically calls him a pikeach - smart person.

chani8

Sun, Jun 09 2013, 12:57 pm

greenfire wrote:

his reasoning was logical to him ... the entire garment is blue reminding us that hashem is everywhere then why would one need a string of blue ...

Ok, I can buy that his reasoning was logical to him. Of course it was. But the fact is, he was undermining Hashem's directive, based on his reasoning that he understood what Hashem 'meant' by techeiles. Sort of like saying that shobbos 'means' to rest, and since I understand the gyst of what hashem meant in that directive, I can change the rule (ignore Hashem's explicit orders).

It reminds me of a dvar torah I heard recently about tefillin shel yad, how the box is like a womb and the straps like umbilical cords, and that those who have a womb don't need to wear tefillin. This too attempts to negate an explicit directive that Hashem gave to the klal, because of a 'reason' behind the mitzva. Rather, the true answer is that the rabbonon puttered women from time bound mitzvos because they lacked time to do them, not because we have a womb.

I do agree that it is problematic when people think that they 'understand' the d'oraisa and therefore can ignore or not adhere to the d'rabbonons. As we've seen on a few topics, sometimes we think something is a drabbonon aytza (recommendation/protective geder) when in actually it has its source/core in a d'oraisa, but only a very learned person would know that.

chani8

Sun, Jun 09 2013, 1:16 pm

runninglate wrote:

chani8 wrote:

Korach was an idiot. He wasn't logical at all.

as mentioned in the first post, rashi specifically calls him a pikeach - smart person.

OK, I stand corrected for offending everyone's sensibilities. Chas v'shalom that I insulted Korach's great name.

This is one of those forest for the trees, imo. What's the point in exclaiming that Korach was meant to be a Levi Gadol or that he was the Gadol of his group? To show that we, who are so far away from Sinai, are even more liable to make mistakes like Korach did, and that since he was a smart man, that we shouldn't think that being so smart protects one from making those very same mistakes.

But what mistake did Korach make? Some say that his mistake was chutzpa to moshe and loshen hara and gaivah. And I was suggesting that it was very simply that he was trying to change hashem's direct orders. To me, that seems illogical, but now that greenfire explained it, I get it now, that to someone blinded by bad middos, it just might somehow seem logical.

Put it this way, when I hear these korach statements from apikorsim today, I think, this is idiotic and illogical reasoning, because anyone who tries to change the rules based on their understanding is messing with Hashem's Will, directly. It was my mistake to liken Korach to present day apikorsim, even though I kind of think that he was the root. To focus on the fact that he was or had the potential to be a tzaddik and that he was so smart, seems to take away from the very clear message that we are meant to learn here, imo.

MaBelleVie

Sun, Jun 09 2013, 1:17 pm

Chani, people do that all the time. "Well, the real issur is not to have sx with your wife when she's niddah. My dh and I can pass the baby, share the same plate and even sleep in the same bed without zxual undertones. We can decide for ourselves where we need harchakot and where we don't. "

chani8

Sun, Jun 09 2013, 1:34 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

That is what I was trying to clarify, and I think it is the main point of the OP. There is a difference here, between a LWMO viewpoint of stating that we understand that certain d'rabbonons are meant as a geder against a specific d'oraisa and therefore we think we can override/discount that d'rabbonon, than the Korach mistake of thinking that we understand Hashem's reasoning and thereafter doing the mitzva our way.

tissues

Sun, Jun 09 2013, 1:34 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

bamamama

Sun, Jun 09 2013, 1:40 pm

chani8 wrote:

greenfire wrote:

his reasoning was logical to him ... the entire garment is blue reminding us that hashem is everywhere then why would one need a string of blue ...

I don't get how Korach could have staged a rebellion in the midst of the midbar while Hashem was so near and Moshe/Aharon were clearly following Hashem's directives. It defies logic that Korach would rebel. It's such a bizarre story. And, for me, it calls into question the whole idea of unbroken mesorah. If Jews couldn't keep it together while Hashem was *with* them, how on Earth did they once they got to EY? The answer is that they didn't - many went back to worshipping idols. I'm open to hearing answers on the Korach front. I'm also pretty angry at having to explain to my 6yo why Hashem killed people for erring in both this parsha and last weeks parsha. I don't want him to do mitzvot based on fear. I want him to do mitzvot to come closer to Hashem. /rant.