Frum people and their lack of respect for boundaries.

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amother

Mon, Jul 01 2013, 3:48 pm

amother wrote:

I think the title fits exactly what is happening. This is frum people who in this case in this area think its ok for them and where parents actually think its ok to excuse boys being boys. What happened to chinuch and using this as an opportunity to teach them about respect and privacy?
I think if you are trying so hard to be nice and not get anyone in trouble then you may need to be the one to teach those who seem to have no respect that this is a no no. How about finding out the Halacha of trespassing and asking the Rabbi's/ teachers in this area to teach this Hallachos. Also maybe make nice clear posters stating the Halocho/and American law, and post them on you property and give out to each one who comes. At least those who respect Halacha maybe will learn something.

I don't know why you are amother. I think this idea is brilliant. It is targeting the segment of the population which is the problem. They do respect Halacha. I am glad I posted and got a very constructive idea. I will ask for a Halachic Opinion letter if there is such a thing and post it. Thank you.

amother

Mon, Jul 01 2013, 5:50 pm

celesteno wrote:

I don't get the vitrol. The OP is having a problem--a problem that is being perpetrated by frum people. She has said repeatedly that she lives in a mixed neighborhood and it is only the frum people causing this issue. Yes, maybe not all frum people disrespect boundaries, personal property, and privacy--but they are the ones doing so where she is. People can stick their heads in the sand, but frum people are not always blameless, nor are they always better behaved than non-Jews. The poster who assumed that a similar site for non-Jews would be full of discussion of litter, drugs, etc is expressing a statement that demonstrates ignorance beyond belief. What is with the refusal to respect and recognize a problem? Our community is not perfect--when someone identifies an issue, why can't the response ever be, that's unfortunate, here's a solution rather than pages of defensiveness for indefensible behavior. I don't get it.

However, OP people are right in saying that you are opening yourself up to potential legal liability if someone gets injured on your property, so I would work to come up with some kind of barrier to either prevent people from coming in or at least make a good faith effort.

MommyZ

Mon, Jul 01 2013, 5:54 pm

*Deleted two extra identical amother posts and left the original.*

MommyZ

yedidask

Mon, Jul 01 2013, 6:45 pm

There needs to be a construction fence. :arrow: This is for your sanity and people's safety. Construction fences are temporary, so should not be so expensive. Try putting up a big sign with a hand holding a gun, reading, "we reserve the right to defend ourselves and property against anyone entering uninvited"; and start calling the police when they trespass.

amother

Mon, Jul 01 2013, 6:53 pm

yedidask wrote:

Construction fences are annoying and expensive. They are the first thing I thought of. They are several thousand dollars which I consider expensive. I am not paying for a construction fence when non is required.

I am also not calling the police on Jews. Why is everyone so quick to want the police involved with Jews.

PAMOM

Mon, Jul 01 2013, 7:25 pm

Because they're breaking the law despite your havi f personally asked them to stop, because you asked for help and we're pointing our all possibilities?

naturalmom5

Mon, Jul 01 2013, 11:03 pm

Why are you being so stubborn and adamant to call the police on "frum Jews" who you claim are being mehalel Shabbos in public
I would think you should whatever it takes to prevent that

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jul 02 2013, 3:05 am

Holy cats, OP! Where do you live? shock

Remind me not to go there, I like my privacy.

I am also happy that I have a very yappy dog. Helps keep out the riffraff. Twisted Evil

amother

Tue, Jul 02 2013, 3:15 am

amother wrote:

I saw 3 boys trying to knock down the outhouse for the workers. Being I live in the house, I can hear everything people are saying when they come in. They feel free to comment. I don't want to hear their comments. This Shabbos a man with his two very small children entered my house when I was dovening. Later two bigger boys entered. A husband and wife came in after them. The wife had nothing nice to say about the house while she was in it. No one apologizes for disturbing us.

What on earth?

You should take of your tichel and wear leggings.

imamiri

Tue, Jul 02 2013, 3:18 am

OP I don't know where you live. But everywhere I have lived, no one would just wander into a construction site (which your house reno is). It's crazy and wrong. Just call the cops next time and be done with the craziness.

amother

Tue, Jul 02 2013, 5:20 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

Why are you being so stubborn and adamant to call the police on "frum Jews" who you claim are being mehalel Shabbos in public
I would think you should whatever it takes to prevent that

Exactly!!

No one is recommending you have them arrested. But they need to realize that what they're doing is wrong plus immoral.

I also take offense with the title of your thread. "Frum people in my neighborhood and their lack of...." would be more appropriate.

amother

Tue, Jul 02 2013, 6:42 am

amother wrote:

celesteno wrote:

I don't get the vitrol. The OP is having a problem--a problem that is being perpetrated by frum people. She has said repeatedly that she lives inCy a mixed neighborhood and it is only the frum people causing this issue. Yes, maybe not all frum people disrespect boundaries, personal property, and privacy--but they are the ones doing so where she is. People can stick their heads in the sand, but frum people are not always blameless, nor are they always better behaved than non-Jews. The poster who assumed that a similar site for non-Jews would be full of discussion of litter, drugs, etc is expressing a statement that demonstrates ignorance beyond belief. What is with the refusal to respect and recognize a problem? Our community is not perfect--when someone identifies an issue, why can't the response ever be, that's unfortunate, here's a solution rather than pages of defensiveness for indefensible behavior. I don't get it.

However, OP people are right in saying that you are opening yourself up to potential legal liability if someone gets injured on your property, so I would work to come up with some kind of barrier to either prevent people from coming in or at least make a good faith effort.

There are plenty of different problems with other groups which actually doesn't prove anything. The fact certain Chinese may fail to file taxes doesn't mean there wouldn't be a concern that frum people work off the books. The fact certain frum people may work off the books and collect services doesn't mean all frum people work off the books and collect services.

There are not many legitimate rentals in my neighborhood. My type of home is not the type of home you rent and manage. You are not comparing apples to apples.

I challenge you to come up with one non-frum upscale neighborhood where the non-Jews would do this.

Owner occupied housing generally doesn't have neighbors which wander into their homes.

amother

Tue, Jul 02 2013, 6:56 am

amother wrote:

naturalmom5 wrote:

Why are you being so stubborn and adamant to call the police on "frum Jews" who you claim are being mehalel Shabbos in public
I would think you should whatever it takes to prevent that

The large bulk of the intrusions I notice is on Shabbos. I am not breaking Shabbos and I am not calling the police on frum Jews. I might only catch the people on Shabbos because of the relative quiet.

The frum Jews are doing this all over the town I live in not just my neighborhood. I also know of this happening in a county an hour and a half away. As one poster said this is something people do on their Shabbos walks.

Maybe a better title world have been - certain frum Jews and their lack of respect for boundaries but that doesn't fit.

amother

Tue, Jul 02 2013, 7:37 am

OP here: I spoke with my Rabbi and certain frum people are violating Halacha which we learn from Parshas Balak.

I did not ask him about the suggestions on this thread of uncovering my hair, wearing leggings, and calling the police because people publically mechel shabbos.

penguin

Tue, Jul 02 2013, 4:19 pm

How about a motion sensor that plays a recording of a dog barking when someone comes near? I don't know where to get it but I am sure it exists.

Then you can hang a sign on your mailbox or a tree near the sidewalk that says "warning, attack dog".

Probably you should ask your Rov it it's okay to do this, since people will be setting it off on Shabbos.

amother

Tue, Jul 02 2013, 4:26 pm

penguin wrote:

I am going to go with signs posting halacha in English and Yiddush. That suggestion is brilliant.

Barking dogs would annoy my neighbors and I agree that would be problematic on Shabbos.

sara53

Wed, Jul 03 2013, 12:48 pm

On the other hand, bless your ignorance that you dont know what goes on in the non jewish communities. We own as well as manage properties that are constantly being vandalized when we are between tenants. Locks mean nothing there, they break through windows. We have never had a vacant house that has not had pipes and other things such as stove and fridge stolen. The pipes involve replacing and redoing plumbing (very costly).
I am proud to say this does not occur in the frum community.
I understand this can be very annoying to the op and hope that the signs help.

Ok, sorry but I am getting on my soapbox here... I have no time to poost, but Im giving up my lunch for this..

Where is this happening, the South Bronx, Watts, E St Louis...
You know and I know, this doesnt go on in Grenwich Connecticut, or even a working class sub in Penn.
Whenever, the ultra frum world wants to lambast the public schools, they describe PS 12 in the Bronx or some inner city school where 12% graduate.
They will never mention the HS my husband attended on LI, or Bronx HS of Science
or some other place that is 1000x better than any Jewish school in the country.

I am very proud toi be Jewish and frum, and I am infuriated, by the constant theme on this and other forums as well as any frun magazine I pick up. "Yes, there are some major flaws in our community, but were still a lot better than the lowest dregs of humanity.."

yogabird

Wed, Jul 03 2013, 3:22 pm

sara53 wrote:

I am very proud toi be Jewish and frum, and I am infuriated, by the constant theme on this and other forums as well as any frun magazine I pick up. "Yes, there are some major flaws in our community, but were still a lot better than the lowest dregs of humanity.."

t
Not sure if I understood you properly, but saying we are better than the lowest dregs of society, even ALOT better, is not saying much...

amother

Wed, Jul 03 2013, 3:53 pm

yogabird wrote:

sara53 wrote:

I am very proud toi be Jewish and frum, and I am infuriate d, by the constant theme on this and other forums as well as any frun magazine I pick up. "Yes, there are some major flaws in our community, but were still a lot better than the lowest dregs of humanity.."

t
Not sure if I understood you properly, but saying we are better than the lowest dregs of society, even ALOT better, is not saying much...

I think what she is trying to say is that saying we are better than the lowest dregs of society is not a defense.

The amother who rented and managed tenement housing in slums and talked about the problems there and said that obviously other groups are worse was irrelevant because people in Greenwich Ct and middle America do not behave this way.

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