Frum people and their lack of respect for boundaries.

amother

Sun, Jun 30 2013, 7:08 pm

Raisin wrote:

simple solution. Install a sensor alarm that makes a loud noise when people enter the premises. Then put up a big sign saying that entering will set of a loud alarm and they will therefore be mechallel shabbos. (and disturb everyones shabbos naps!)

That should stop them.

Cheaper option: You can try the sign without the actual alarm.

The problem with the alarms is that birds enter the house.

Before the questions start, there are no birds in the existing part of the house.

I am going to try a sign. I can't understand why a sign would defer trespassers. Do people really think to themselves that if there is not a sign, they are welcome?

marina

Sun, Jun 30 2013, 7:10 pm

How to install a home security system:

1. Go to a second-hand store and buy a pair of men's used size 14-16 work boots.

2. Place them on your front porch, along with several empty beer cans, a copy of Guns & Ammo magazine and several NRA magazines.

3. Put a few giant dog dishes next to the boots and magazines.

4. Leave a note on your door that reads: 'Hey Bubba, Big Jim, Duke and Slim, I went to the gun shop for more ammunition. Back in an hour. Don't mess with the pit bulls -- they attacked the mailman this morning and messed him up real bad.I don't think Killer took part in it but it was hard to tell from all the blood. PS - I locked all four of 'em in the house. Better wait outside.

amother

Sun, Jun 30 2013, 7:34 pm

squirrel wrote:

Yes its true, kids are kids and they do strange things. The other day my 3 yr old son told my neighbors nanny that he didnt like her because she had a black face. We raise our kids to love everyone but to him he saw it as a dirty, muddy face and didnt like it. You can point a finger and call him a disrespectful FRUM child or you can just call him a child.
Your title does seem offensive and I feel you owe the frum an apology.

The people who are walking in my house are children old enough to be out by themselves generally around Bar/Bat Mitzvah age and older. They are all frum.

Your 3 yr olds behavior typical 3 yr old behavior and it would be ridiculous to say frum people are offensive based on one 3 yr olds comment.

This behavior is continuous and done by various members of the community. Again I don't say all people with boundary issues are frum or all frum people have boundary issues. There are many respectful frum people.

I keep thinking of more and more threads about frum people and boundary issues like the women who asked to try on the sheital her host was wearing. The women who found her guest in her bedroom. The guests who leave their children to go to simchas and expect hosts to listen out for the baby.

amother

Sun, Jun 30 2013, 7:34 pm

squirrel wrote:

mimivan

Sun, Jun 30 2013, 7:42 pm

squirrel wrote:

I feel you owe your neighbor's nanny an apology! Pronto!
Most children in less sheltered communities (I.e. who have black friends and black neighbors) would not say this.
While there were many "funny" responses about booby traps, calling the police etc.. a person is not going to do that with neighbors. And the suggestion to move? She's doing construction. how can she do that.

I'd suggest putting up a sign do not enter.
I've encountered a lot of boundary issues in Israel, but that has to do with the culture there (like people knocking to warn me they are going to open the door anyway). Keep it locked. I also had neighbors asking if I was "alright" because they looked through the window and saw lights on at midnight. (I was working on a project). I think people can sometimes take the idea of "all Jews are responsible for each other" to extreme and forget that in "How Goodly Are Your Tents" Bilaam were praising us because our tent openings faced the opposite way so we couldn't look in on other people.

Perhaps it is the tight knittedness of communities like this. But you have a right to privacy.

amother

Sun, Jun 30 2013, 7:43 pm

squirrel wrote:

Ouch, her neighbor's "sins" come nowhere near what your son said; I don't even see how you can bring that despicable story as proof of anything. You have a lot more to apologize to the nanny than the neighbors have to this woman. A 3 year old? Come on, he is not being taught better.

squirrel

Sun, Jun 30 2013, 7:52 pm

mimivan wrote:

squirrel wrote:

Do you really think I just sat there quietly and said nothing?!!!
I dont live in a sheltered community but dont live in a black neighborhood either, he sees blacks when were out all the time but because he knows her he felt comfortable saying it.
I am not comparing stories but children can do strange things regardless of who they are and to point a finger at frum people is wrong!

amother

Sun, Jun 30 2013, 8:06 pm

I have to agree about the sheltered frum childrens 'quick to pass judgement' attitude. The other day my frum neighbour's 5 year old cousin was hanging out on my porch. He goes to a very frum school in another neighborhood. I was showing some pics of my daughter & son in law. My SIL was wearing a tshirt & cap (they were going on a tiyul in israel) & the kid says to me - he looks like a [gentile]. I have never called non jews non jews in my home. I find it very offensive. So quick to pass judgement & not see anything wrong with it - I don't blame the little kid (who by the way was wearing jeans & a tshirt himself)

rosenbal

Sun, Jun 30 2013, 8:25 pm

amother wrote:

black sheep wrote:

This is not a frum people issue. I know plienty of frum people who would never walk into another persons house uninvited. I live in a frum neighborhood, and none of my frum neighbors woukd do such a thing. Being frum doesn't mean you lack respect for boundaries. Therefore I take offense at the title of your thread.

Maybe where you live frum people are more reserved. There was a recent thread about frum moms not respecting kids toys. Another thread referenced in this thread was frum people taking furniture for Log B'Omar fires. There was another thread about frum people's behavior in Walmart in the mountains. Yet another about pushing and shoving for food at charity events. And so on ....

Nor all frum people have boundary issues and not all people with boundary issues are frum. There are serious etiquette issues in the frum community and to pretend otherwise is to enable that behavior to continue.

We went to Hershey park one chol hamoed when they had their frum day (I don't know the official name, but it's rented out after season and everyone is frum.) Anyway, we sat through some magic show, then my family went to get something to eat while I stayed behind in the corner of the theater to nurse my baby. Soon after was going to be the next performance which was going to be....the Maccabeats.

Quite a few people decided to just stick around or arrived really early figuring they'd get good seats. It turned out that they needed everyone toclear the theater so that the maccabeats could test their sound system etc. The non Jewish park employees kept announcing into the mike that everyone needed to leave so the group could prep - it was like talking to a group of deaf oeople, literally (except deaf people would have had the decency to try to read their lips!) No one lef the theater, they kept announcing it again and again. Finally, the maccabeats just told the workers they need to start their prep and it didn't matter...but ui was SO embaressed.

I finished nursing and ran out if there (no, there was a huge line and even though I lined up early, there were nobi seats.left for us). I am not from the NY area, but most people ar Hershey that day were and although I'm sure most NYorkers are nice and have good middos (I have plenty of N Y friends), so many that dat showed such an entitled and just plain rude attitude that was such a chilul hashem that frankly, I'm not at all surprised at the OPs story. Who cares if they're asked to leave the theater so the performers can prep for the show? Whi cares if the house has barackades around it and its private property? I WANT to be in the theater NOW. I WANT to check out the construction. I'm entitled.

amother

Sun, Jun 30 2013, 8:26 pm

amother wrote:

When we did construction my contractor had a couple of big pieces of plywood nailed up over the doorways to the existing house every day, & took them down in the morning when they came to work.

I doubt your neighbors kids will come with crowbars or hammers (esp. not on Shabbos) & take down the plywood.

Yes they did. That is what I meant by "un-nailed." They pried off the barrier on Shabbos. I can't tell you how they did it.

I wasn't able to move the ladders which were left in place nor to put back the barriers.

amother

Sun, Jun 30 2013, 9:07 pm

Quote:

I doubt your neighbors kids will come with crowbars or hammers (esp. not on Shabbos) & take down the plywood.

Quote:

Yes they did. That is what I meant by "un-nailed." They pried off the barrier on Shabbos. I can't tell you how they did it.

Okay. I am lost. Your neighbors kids physically removed a piece of plywood nailed over a doorway. On Shabbos.

I guess I am speechless.

Maybe I'd ask the Rov to talk about this in shul, both from a chilul Shabbos POV and a bein odom lechaveiro POV.

amother

Sun, Jun 30 2013, 9:17 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

I doubt your neighbors kids will come with crowbars or hammers (esp. not on Shabbos) & take down the plywood.

Quote:

Yes they did. That is what I meant by "un-nailed." They pried off the barrier on Shabbos. I can't tell you how they did it.

Yes. Thank you for understanding. If nails and informing the neighbors don't work, I am still not understanding how a sign will. I am going tomorrow to get signs.

amother

Sun, Jun 30 2013, 10:24 pm

amother wrote:

squirrel wrote:

Amother only because I have told this before.

I don't think it is kind or fair to put down this mother and say that she didn't teach her child better. How rude! Children use the little that they know to construct meaning out of their world. When I was little, around four, next door to my grandparents lived a black family with a little boy my age. He was my friend and we were frequently in each others houses. My understanding at the time (until I shared it with my mother and she told me differently) was that his skin was black because he never took a bath. I was jealous and considered him to be very lucky because I desperately hated taking baths. I wasn't a four year old bigot, it was just how I made sense of skin that looked different than my own. Why are illegally trespassing grownups who vandalized private property not worse than an innocent three year old who happened to notice and comment on the fact that (gasp!) not everybody in the world looks exactly the same?