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Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette

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amother

Tue, Jul 02 2013, 10:02 pm

Dh's friend has been calling for awhile, asking if he, his wife and baby can come to us for shabbos. I had them before and I didn't enjoy it. DH and his friend schmooze with each other the whole time while I serve, clean up and take care of my kids. His wife just sat there by the table not lifting a finger, and otherwise slept all day.
Shabbos is my hardest day, with the kids, the heat, the constant food prep. I will resent the extra work. I told DH flat out no. I think if he wants to see his friend he can go out with him on his own. Is my attitude really rude?

anonymrs

Tue, Jul 02 2013, 10:05 pm

I would do the same!

amother

Tue, Jul 02 2013, 10:13 pm

no you are not being rude -- if DH wants to pitch in and help out like ALOT in order to have his friends then fine, otherwise, "now's not a good time dear".

zaq

Tue, Jul 02 2013, 10:54 pm

Yes, and no.

Guests should enhance your oneg shabbos, not destroy it. It's one thing to reach out to people in need, such as newcomers and single parents; that's chessed and a mitzvah, and if it involves a little discomfort, that's called generosity. It's quite another to host people who are in a perfectly good social/financial position whose company you don't enjoy and who, it seems, are just looking for a free shabbos vacation. That's masochism.

I get the idea you're not too fond of Mrs. Husband'sfriend. If dh can get together with this man on his own, and Shabbat is not the only time they can socialize , then encourage him to enjoy guys' night out.

OTOH if Shabbat is really the only time dh can get together with this man, then compromise is in order. Agree on how often you will be willing to have these people over. Once a year or once a decade, it's bound to be more often than you like and less often than dh likes; so be it. That's why it's called "compromise".

However, dh should not get off scot-free; part of your negotiation should include what tasks dh is going to take over. They're essentially HIS guests, so he should be responsible for the extra work.

You should also feel free to ask your guests to lend you a hand. You might ask them to make their own beds on Friday rather than have the beds already made up for them, for example. If they resent that and that makes them not want to come again, so much the better!

DLKZ, some people don't want guests messing around in their kitchen and prefer that guests stay put. Some guests are afraid to help lest they break a dish or tref up the kitchen. (It's pretty embarrassing to have a hostess freak out because you put a fleishik dish on her pareve counter, or tell you "we don't stack dishes in this house" when you bring a stack of plates in to the kitchen.) But there is no reason why you shouldn't ask your guests to help set the table and/or serve and/or clear off the table if you're not that sort. Go ahead and ask them to peel some veggies for the salad, while you're at it--what do you have to lose? If they're willing, they'll pitch in, and if not, they may never bother you again.

amother

Tue, Jul 02 2013, 11:34 pm

No it's not rude. The same thing just happened to me and I said no!

amother

Wed, Jul 03 2013, 1:48 am

It looks like she lacks social skills. It will be a huge mitzvah if you talk to her and ask her nicely to help. She might be so grateful that you took the time to help her get it. You can give it one more try. But you don't have to.

solo

Wed, Jul 03 2013, 1:29 pm

Uh oh. I'm just like ur guest. I have two small children and spend most of meal time looking after them. Is this the only reason u don't want them to come?
Personally I'd prefer my guests look after their kids and let me do my thing in the kitchen. I just assumes others feel the same

agreer

Wed, Jul 03 2013, 2:34 pm

solo wrote:

me too! guests are guests! if they choose to help, that's really nice, but if they just watch their children, that is help, too!

I haaaaaate having people in my kitchen.

Fox

Wed, Jul 03 2013, 2:45 pm

ITA with everything Zaq and Agreer said!

I'm also none too fond of having guests in the kitchen. This thread put me in mind of the time DH's single friend "helped" by bringing in all my Waterford crystal goblets . . . and stacking them into a five-level pyramid! I felt like it might take a bomb dismantlement team to approach the stack with no vibration that might send the whole thing tumbling!

Peanut2

Wed, Jul 03 2013, 2:53 pm

Fox wrote:

Did they break?

chocolate moose

Wed, Jul 03 2013, 6:17 pm

did they host you in the meantime?

Fox

Wed, Jul 03 2013, 6:34 pm

Peanut2 wrote:

Fox wrote:

Did they break?

LOL! No, but the guest was rattling around the kitchen, and the pyramid was shaking slightly. I shooed him back to the dining room and I snuck up on the pyramid, managing to remove each layer successfully.

At some point, the guest wandered back into the kitchen and said something like, "Oh, you didn't like my little work of art?"

I don't remember how I answered him, but I will mention that my beloved Waterford goblets were broken by adult guests over the years -- never by children. My MIL managed to break two! I'm not sure what this proves. However, now I purchase my crystal at the Dollar Store, and while it doesn't elicit the same oohs and ahhs from connoisseurs, I cheerfully toss broken pieces and replace them while I'm buying laundry detergent and bathroom cleaner!

Belle

Wed, Jul 03 2013, 7:22 pm

I once had friends over and was quite surprised that the wife came and just sat at the table, barely spoke, and then collapsed on the couch the whole Shabbos (or was it yom tov?) Barely took care of her kids. I was unpleasantly surprised, but because we were friends I wasn't as resentful as I would be like you if I weren't friends. Turns out she was newly pregnant (too early to tell anyone) and was highly nauseous and exhausted. So, there might be reasons why the wife doesn't help (I also agree that she probably is socially awkward). I think the situation could be handled by discussing your hesitations with your husband, and how you feel about serving all the time and no socializing. Perhaps he will help you more in the kitchen. There has to be a way to make it work for both of you.

estyn_ny

Wed, Jul 03 2013, 7:59 pm

I think its fore your dh responsibility to help you out then a wife of his friend who is a guest! I also hate having guests help, I have my own way of doing things that I like. it can be hard for a guest to knwo what the hostess wants, without you asking. if Im a guest I am happy to help but I prefer the hostess tell me how she likes things to be done, so I don't feel like I'm barging in and doing it wrong.
Bottom line if your dh wants these people as guests he needs to volunteer to help with the extra work it makes for you

MaBelleVie

Wed, Jul 03 2013, 8:15 pm

Sounds like she may have been pregnant at the time, and just doing her utmost not to puke at the table or fall asleep in the cholent bowl. I can think of moments like that when I probably seemed like an awful guest.

If dh wants them, make a deal that he is in charge of serving and clearing away each course. I think that's fair.

chocolate moose

Wed, Jul 03 2013, 9:32 pm

Why do ladies go away for shabbos if they're so naseous? why don't they stay home and have take out food and help?

or at least tell you ahead of time?

BeershevaBubby

Thu, Jul 04 2013, 12:46 am

I don't expect guests to help, but I do expect them to wrangle their own kids. And I don't have a problem politely telling a guest to please get their child off the stairs or to stop doing whatever.

I also don't have a problem flat out calling my husband in to help me while he's 'holding court' at the table, or to go to the table and say to him "Z, can you please_____" and have him do whatever needs doing.

amother

Thu, Jul 04 2013, 5:16 am

Op here thanks for all helpful replies. I've never been to them and I don't want to, I have a few little kids and they live in a small apartment it's not practical.
In general I find shabbos REALLY hard these days and by time the shabbos day meal rolls around I'm exhausted. I can't handle any guests at this time. I'm willing to go the extra mile for parents/inlaws/someone whose company ill enjoy and helps out. I can't be a caterer and cleaning lady to someone who as it was phrased earlier just wants a "free shabbos vacation."

I told DH that if he wants a get together with his friend he can go out to eat with him during the week.

imasinger

Thu, Jul 04 2013, 5:39 am

I think that YOU should be the one to take the shabbos vacation. If DH wants to host them, he can plan, cook, serve, and clean up the meal, and you will gladly chat with the wife and kid.

And if Shabbos is all becoming too much for you, maybe he isn't pitching in enough altogether.

zaq

Thu, Jul 04 2013, 8:00 pm

agreer wrote:

guests are guests! .

Not when they invited themselves. Then they are...pests.

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