How DO you get your child into a London school?

amother

Mon, Jul 08 2013, 9:59 am

I posted this on the other thread but didn't want to detract from the OP.

I was wondering how it works to get your child into a Jewish state or free school in NW London.

I know you have to apply to the council (I think) when your child reaches a certain age and give three schools in order of preference. I also know that each school has a set of criteria against which each application is judged and places awarded in order of priority.

I've seen it said on other threads that a child is unlikely to get a place at Menorah Primary School unless the family is a member of Munks or is extremely well connected. Is membership at Munks on the list of criteria for that school? What does "well connected" mean? Can the school really choose pupils based on connections like that? I thought it was entirely objective.

I'm also curious to know how many non-Jewish kids are being admitted to schools based on them saying they practise Judaism. Raisin mentioned in the other thread that it isn't really an issue because all schools are heavily oversubscribed, but schools are not allowed to favour kids who are halachically jewish over other kids who say they practice judaism according to a recent ruling.

I wonder what is happening at free schools like Rimon which potentially have 50% of places for non-Jewish kids. I know that school has only being going for a year and I imagine that non-jewish families wouldn't be attracted to sending their child to such a new school but as the school develops I can see it being a more attractive prospect.

Finally, what other (non-Jewish) state primary schools are in the area?

Mrs Bissli

Mon, Jul 08 2013, 8:02 pm

OP, you got good grasp in how the school application works for voluntary-aided and free schools.
You need to submit two sets of forms, the first part going through the local council where you live and the second part being supplementary forms. Criteria varies by schools, some give preference to members of specific shuls while some are more lenient and take what DH calls "collect-tokens-to-redeem-your-place" approach (ie, anyone who attends synagogues X times during certain periods are considered preferential candidates, then places are allocated either by lotteries or by distance from the school). Obviously all schools will have sibling priority. Note schools have slightly different time period to collect enough attendance points.

Now as for how to "screen" families, that's where SIF comes into place. For example, Menorah Foundation and Beth Shvidler require signatures from an Orthodox rabbi. It is therefore extremely unlikely a family with non-halachically Jewish child or non-observant families would get in. Similarly Menora Primary's SIF includes a form where the rabbi certifies the child is halachically Jewish and family is observant. Some others also give priorities to members of specific synagogues (eg Dunstan Rd for Rimon, Edgware Hadass for Beth Shvidler). For IJDS you actually have to go through an interview with Vaad haKodesh (and they have 60% of places reserved to Hendon families). On the other hand, you have schools such as HJPS or Sinai whose CRP (Certificate of Religious Practices) forms can be signed by non-orthodox rabbis.

I'm also curious how the admission criteria would work out for free schools that can select only up to 50% of intake based on faith. (Rimon's SIF gives preference to Dunstan Rd and other US members.) On practical terms, I presume the remaining half would be taken up by other Jews (could be halachic or non-halachic).

Interestingly, a good friend of mine has a daughter at JFS with a classmate who has absolutely no religious or cultural affiliation with Jews. This classmate and her parents attended a liberal synagogue frequent enough to collect CRP points and got in on base of proximity criteria. As it turned out my friend told me she is an honour student and got the highest mark in Hebrew for Yr 7.

Mrs Bissli

Mon, Jul 08 2013, 8:13 pm

Menorah Primary--yes Munks member families get the priory. I heard the "connection/protektzia" bit works because they have a certain number for non-Munks families who are trying to secure a place for either the sole or the oldest child. (This is basically to give better chance for such families who would be 'bumped down' for not having older siblings). That's where there may be some wriggle rooms.

Non-Jewish state primary schools? OFSTED reports and league tables depict pretty grim pictures for immigrant heavy councils like Barnet and Brent. To be honest I may know just 1 or 2 families who are frum and send their children to such schools. Most other Jewish parents would send to non-Jewish prep (ie independent/private) schools. Some non-Jewish independent schools have pretty high % of Jewish kids esp at the secondary school level, City of London Boys even has daily miniyan and gemara shiurim.

amother

Tue, Jul 09 2013, 9:49 am

Thanks Mrs Bissli for your detailed and helpful response Smile

I lived in London when I was single and actually was a member of Dunstan Road. We are considering a move back to the area but of course it is now much more complicated with schools to consider. Also, the house prices in GG may force us to look elsewhere anyway.

Do you know how synagogue attendance is recorded on Shabbat? I know that some shuls have a system where families have to declare that they are applying for a faith place at a school so that their attendance can be recorded appropriately. I just wondered how it is done!

Thanks for the info on Menorah, I didn't realise it was officially connected to Munks. That's a shame (at least for us :-p) because we totally would not fit in there. What kind of connection do "well connected" individuals have?

Non-Jewish state primary schools - I imagined as much. A shame, because we totally would have considered sending to one if it was a good school. Independant school is out of the question.

Mrs Bissli wrote:

Interestingly, a good friend of mine has a daughter at JFS with a classmate who has absolutely no religious or cultural affiliation with Jews. This classmate and her parents attended a liberal synagogue frequent enough to collect CRP points and got in on base of proximity criteria. As it turned out my friend told me she is an honour student and got the highest mark in Hebrew for Yr 7.

Well, you don't have to be frum to be smart ;-)

Mrs Bissli

Tue, Jul 09 2013, 4:34 pm

CRP record keeping. I know. It's not easy keeping track of children attendance, esp in large shuls with many families. Most synagogues have a list of registered families whose children need attendance for school admission purposes. Shul office prints out tickets for each children each week before Shabbat. Often they use different colours for different weeks or tickets can be bar-coded. On Shabbat morning, families need to show up by a certain time (say 10:00 or 10:30) to pick up the tickets. There's a collection box that appears at the end of the service. (So basically you can't just show up in time for Adon Olam, or you leave the shul as soon as you get the ticket). Those tickets are tallied up and attendance recorded. In smaller synagogues, the process can be as simple as a stack of index cards and paper clips used to record attendance (similar to recording offerings after aliyot).

Well, you don't have to be frum to be smart? You don't have to be Jewish to be smart!

Yeah I know. GG and Hendon have become quite expensive. Though there're other neighbourhoods that are more affordable outside of the NW ghetto.

nylon

Wed, Jul 10 2013, 12:58 am

There are some good non-Jewish primary schools in London. The issue is that everyone knows what they are and the catchment areas are TINY since intakes are fixed (and some of the best ones are single form entry, only 1 class of 30 per year). You basically need to find the school and stalk a house next to it and pay through the nose, and then not guarantee a place there. It also depends on neighborhood, if lots of parents are sending to religious or private schools, what's left are the people who have no choice, and people from outside the neighborhood. In general the proportion of Jews at state primaries is quite low IME (even not very religious ones). Between Jewish schools and private, they take a lot of the kids. I've heard Borehamwood's primaries are not anything to boast about.

Of course, that only works for primary school, and Barnet's situation is iffy there. There are a couple of grammar (selective) schools, but Henrietta Barnett (the girls' grammar) has more applications per place than any other school in the country or did a few years ago. You apply there and to top independent schools, and hope you save the fees.

For free schools the rule is supposed to be simple distance test for the 50% of non faith places. Of course, mostly Jews will apply anyway, but you never know for sure. I would suspect a few non-Jewish parents might try. Not many.

Mrs Bissli

Wed, Jul 10 2013, 8:06 pm

I don't know if this is any consolation at all, but Jews are not the only one struggling to find places at faith schools. I was speaking to a nominally Catholic Belgian colleague, and he was very agonized that his daughter failed to get into a highly sought after RC school DESPITE his older children already go there, the family clocked enough points sacrificing Sundays attending Mass, simply because he moved house 1mile which bumped him out of the catchment area...

Mrs Bissli

Wed, Jul 17 2013, 5:34 pm

Avigdor Primary--that's the one in Hackney right? I think they closed several years ago, if I recall. A shame as that was one of few non-charedi jewish schools in Hackney.

Eden Primary--I think they do already have a site in Muswell Hill. I know a family with an older sibling at Morasha who looked at it for younger siblings but decided not to send there. She described as it's more liberal, primary school version of JCOSS. ie making a big deal it's pluralistic school. It's a free school so only 50% chosen on religious criteria.