The Poorest Family in a Rich Neighborhood - WWYD?

zaq

Tue, Jul 09 2013, 9:29 pm

As an investment in real estate, it's always worth buying the crummiest house on a good block. Real estate value is based on location, location, location, and the ritzy surroundings increase the value of your property even as your shack depresses the value of theirs.

As an investment in your children, otoh, not so much. It's best to be somewhere in the middle, neither the richest nor the poorest. Being the nebachs of the neighborhood isn't good for anyone, not even strong-minded, determind adults and certainly not children.

Parents sometimes have to sacrifice for their children; your dh's sacrifice may just have to be a commute that's longer than 10-15 minutes. He'll survive--many of us commute an hour or more each way and we're all still sane.

Of course, we only have your word that the house you;re considering is the "smallest, shabbiest, most run-down" one in the 'hood. We don't know what that really means. Does it mean the house barely passes inspection, or does it mean the kitchen appliances are from the 1970s? Does "not having enough money to fix it up" mean living with cracked windows and water-stained ceilings or living with red-Messed wallpaper and green shag carpet throughout?

zaq

Tue, Jul 09 2013, 9:43 pm

Actually, OP, your thread title says it all. Somehow I don't think you're poor at all. The fact that you can--even if just barely--afford to buy a house at all, let alone in a rich neighborhood, even if it is a fixer-upper, tells me you're people of at least moderate means who, in a more modest neighborhood would be considered well-off or at least "average". Placing yourself in surroundings that are so far above your touch has you seeing yourself as poor. Note that you didn't say "the least rich family in a rich neighborhood"--you said "the POOREST family". Doesn't that tell you something?

amother

Tue, Jul 09 2013, 9:46 pm

amother wrote:

I am not saying dont move there but I live in a community where we are the poorest and have the shabbiest house with no lawn care and broken windows shutters that fell off and cant be replaced ect. also my kids just watch the other kids get great toys which they cant have their friends go on vacation every summer and to camp and my kids cant do that. Their friends are always going out to eat and my kids are always making excuses why they cant join so they dont have to say that we dont have the money.
Yes it hurts and my kids every so often say something about it but I daven that it will make them stonger adults.

OP here - do you mind me asking why you live there and why you do not move? This is exactly what I am concerned about.

When we moved in it was a new neighborhood with very few houses. We got a small basic house with no extras and I had one little baby. We didnt plan on staying there we thought that we will sell it a few years down the road and move to something bigger, but my husband lost his job and was out of work for many years so had no choice but to stay. And we dont have the money to move so we are stuck where we are.

Kfar

Tue, Jul 09 2013, 9:49 pm

OP -- we are somewhat in the position you describe, although not the poorest. Our small house is at the end of a street which gets fancier and fancier as you go up the hill to real mansions (ours is nothing close) and as a single parent for many years things were not great, although I always managed to pay full tuition (the reality here is that it is no secret who is getting tuition assistance) and camp. What about the school and shul your children will attend -- is that more of a mix? If so, I think the ill effects are somewhat softened. You mention, however, that your DS already has some social issues and this will not get better in the neighborhood that you describe unless you can feel sure of a more "democratic" mix for him at school and shul. Unfortunately may be best for DH to bite the bullet and commute a bit longer for the sake of the family.

Last edited by Kfar on Tue, Jul 09 2013, 9:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

manhattanmom

Tue, Jul 09 2013, 9:50 pm

little_mage wrote:

Ironically, this was just published yesterday: http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.....town/

Several of the comments have people talking about their own experiences. It might be worth taking a look for some ideas and thoughts.

So interesting. I read a lot of the comments on the blog post and thought that most were great--many were written by people who were on the poorer end of a rich neighborhood whose parents lived there for the good school district. And many were grateful for their upbringings saying they understood and they had friends anyway, and their friends were understanding.
Unfortunately, I don't see this happening so much in the frum world. From my own experiences both as a child and as an adult with friends who live in said communities--for some reason unknown to me (and this was just a discussion I had with some of my neighbors) there is a TREMENDOUS amount of chutzpah in yeshivas all around. Kids are mean. And kids are bullies. When I was growing up the biggest bullies were the ones whose parents were always honored at the yeshiva's dinner. And although I would love to live in a pretty neighborhood and do my own thing, I couldn't assume my kids would be as strong as I am.

chocolate chips

Tue, Jul 09 2013, 10:02 pm

No.

In the long term, you are setting yourself up for more hardships. If you are comfortable in a equally comfortable area there is way less peer pressure and one person getting a $100 more expensive watch than you won't affect you.
If you are, as you say, the poorest in the rich neighborhood, however rich you are you will never be able to live up to them and down will go your self esteem, your kids friends, etc.
Unless of course you live up to the joneses and suffer with the credit card debt.

amother

Tue, Jul 09 2013, 10:26 pm

I grew up the poor deprived kid. Everyone had now than me. It made me very ambitious. I also aspired to a life style I would not have been exposed to otherwise. There are positives.

I now live in the nicest house in my neighborhood which is fully paid for and the rest of the lifestyle to go along with it. I have zero debt and plenty for a rainy day.

Peanut2

Tue, Jul 09 2013, 11:39 pm

I think it really really depends on the community. I know fantastically wealthy people and wealthy communities that are just amazing. I'd love to be the poorest person there!

There are many communities that are very focused on materialism and money and I don't want to be part of them regardless of whether they are rich or poor or how I fit in. Yes, it's easier to compete in that environment if you are doing as well or better than most, but that's not a good way to raise kids.

My parents are not at all wealthy. They also had us while still in school. I went to elementary school with many kids from very, very wealthy families. I was on scholarship, but didn't even know it. I was sometimes jealous, but I was young and generally wanted small things I couldn't have. I didn't realize the differences in housing. My mom would make my birthday parties in a local park, while one kid had his in halls (as in, the kind of places that are wedding venues.) I loved it. So yes, at the time I was slightly jealous sometimes, but it wasnt all consuming, and none of the kids were too aware. We moved away later, but I stayed in touch with many of them.

I think a big part is how the parents act and their attitude. My parents never acted like our less stellar finances made us any less than. There were some things we just didnt have or couldn't have. But they didn't give that fact any extra meaning. If anything, I was a bit of a snobby kid at times. I knew I went to a very good school and I was very proud of how smart and good looking and well behaved we all were compared to other children.

My mom never expressed jealousy about this. She didnt seem to envy the other moms. Maybe because she knew that the situation was temporary she was fine, or maybe it's her style, but while I knew we weren't rich I didn't realize just how not rich we were...

amother

Wed, Jul 10 2013, 1:17 am

IME only very strong willed, confident kids manage to do well in these situations. Some of them rise above their circumstances and even become the coolest kids around.

However, if you're dealing with shy kids or kids with any social issues, then being the poorest kid around is bad news, it just multiplies their lack of self confidence. BTDT. Such a kid will be embarrassed to invite friends over, will feel out of style, and won't have money to join his classmates when they go out.

I used to live in such a place. We moved after a few years to a simpler area and bought a big house. My kids moved from being bottom rung of the social ladder to being the top rung. It's sad but true that your financial status in the community influences your child's social standing.
It shouldn't be that way, but it is what it is, and unless I had absolutely no other options, I would never willingly place my kids again in a situation where they are the have nots.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jul 10 2013, 1:37 am

I think it depends on a couple of things. The most important thing for me, is that I be in the eruv. The second thing, is the middos of the community.

I'm at the lower end of the financial spectrum in my community, but it's been all for the good. The motto around our house is "Who is rich? The one who is happy with what they have." My daughter has amazing middos from growing up among spoiled, selfish kids. She doesn't want that for herself, and I always model gratitude to Hashem for everything we have. Whenever we are downtown, we always bring spare change with us so that we can give tzedaka directly to homeless people. We discuss countries that don't have clean water or electricity. We talk about how people are more important than things.

Just ask yourself, what do you want written on your tombstone? "She was the prettiest." "She was the richest." or "She was the kindest." That's how you raise your kids to stand up to the materialism and shallowness of the world. If you can do that, then they will be "rich-proof".

PinkFridge

Wed, Jul 10 2013, 9:46 am

amother wrote:

Could you expand on this a bit? Because not everyone sees this as pure positives. For some people there's a middle ground that's healthier for them. You may not be needing to prove everything to everyone but some people might emerge from such a challenge needing to.

I have to admit, we're poor in some ways. Definitely had the smallest house in the class. But we're blessed to live in a community that still keeps it real, where some of the richest people have houses that you wouldn't peg as belonging to them. B"H, no Kipling competition but sure, we managed to get the kids some of the right clothes (probably not enough Tongue Out

) to make them feel good, got them to camp, seminary, and other (limited) experiences, and a happy atmosphere at home. They look back and are pretty grateful.

Reading what I wrote, I think the key thing is that living OOT and in our community, we didn't have to deal with this much to begin with.

amother

Wed, Jul 10 2013, 3:11 pm

I vote no. If you were certain that your DH would be in this job for years and years and never ever switch to another job, then I would consider it. I would try to teach my kids that we moved there so that Totty should have a smaller commute and spend more time with us, and give that to them as a value. But, since most people don't stay in the same job forever, then I think it makes more sense to move to a better neighborhood for your family, and hopefully he can at some point find a job closer to that house! Much hatzlacha!