ami article about poverty in israel

Tablepoetry

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 4:22 am

shalhevet wrote:

TP, I specifically wrote about a family with two children and not just one specialist each. If you have to pay NIS 22 for an orthopedist, an ENT, physiotherapy, X-rays, and another couple that is 150 shekels. Add copays for prescription drugs. Add taxis/ gas + parking to hospitals and doctors. Add loss of earnings. And, yes, that can push a family over the edge. And that's for regular childhood illnesses/ accidents. Not anything serious.

I don't know why you are adding taxis/gas and parking. Don't people pay that in the states too? I still think the numbers we are talking about are very very low, and if that's pushing a family over the edge, that family was very close to the edge to begin with.
Now, people with chronic conditions who take many different medications, they might have trouble paying if they are on the poor side. Especially if they are elderly. I think it's terrible that they don't get more help. But your standard Israeli family isn't going broke because one kid broke his arm the same month his brother got whiplash.

shalhevet wrote:

And if your child goes to hitpatchut hayeled for 2-3 different treatments each week? each at 20-something shekel? And you have 2 children who each need such help?

How many people have 2 kids going three times a week to hitpatchut hayeled? And even with such a family, it would cost 120 NIS per week, so less than 500 NIS per month. A lot of money, no doubt, but it would probably cost more in the states.

In any case, I'm not saying things are rosy here or that everyone is doing well. Just that most people are managing fine.

Marion

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 4:53 am

RachelEve14 wrote:

Liba wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

And if your child goes to hitpatchut hayeled for 2-3 different treatments each week? each at 20-something shekel? And you have 2 children who each need such help?

If they are getting that much therapy because they need it, they may well qualify for disability. If they qualify for disability then there are no copays for therapy or specialists.

Liba that is not true. I have had a kid in OT and speech at the same time, or OT and art therapy, but needed but also not B"H issues serious enough to be covered under BL.

I'll also pipe in with this not being my experience. He gets three different therapies in school but he still gets 2 different kinds in hitpatchut hayeled (secondary provider because hitpatchut hayeled doesn't actually provide that service). That's 54NIS/week, and that's not to mention the other child who for some reason can't even get the evaluation he should have. Or the 2000NIS we spent for a private evaluation for one because the body that should have provided it "didn't have time" (their words, not mine), or the supplemental therapies or assessments that the kupah doesn't cover at all (another 1000NIS for sensory because they don't recognize it, and the recently lowered reimbursement schedule for stuff like riding that they told me was emotional, not OT, but because it was for OT purposes they wouldn't reimburse, though they would have if the riding person had written emotional therapy on the receipt instead...)

Marion

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 4:55 am

Tablepoetry wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

And if your child goes to hitpatchut hayeled for 2-3 different treatments each week? each at 20-something shekel? And you have 2 children who each need such help?

Your math is off. As of the last time I paid a copay (last week), hitpatchut hayeled treatments are 28NIS each. 28x4 is 112/treatment/month...112x3 is 336 for one child and 672 for two children. Under 500NIS? In my dreams.

amother

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 5:29 am

We live mostly from my husband's disability. He is 140% disabled according to the government.
We get no cost insurance and he does not pay anything for his many, many meds with one or two exceptions. We get a large sum for disability which is meant for us to live off of and a smaller amount that is meant for his part time carer. We get amidar rent subsidy which is about a quarter of the cost of our total rent. We get money towards upkeep of his car, but we haven't purchased the car he got approved for tax free because we can't afford the down payment, so someone rents one for him but we are trying to change that and find a way to pay for it ourselves. The government provides him with a wheelchair. When I had a toddler the child welfare services paid most of the cost of full time day care in a beautiful day care facility. No, there is no food stamps. I do think the government does a decent job of taking care of us. Yes, we are still poor, especially because of all the extras Dh needs. We have no family here helping us. When dh was healthy and working we weren't well off at all but that was because he was in chinuch which isn't a well paying job. I hope one day to be able to work outside the home but I am not in that place yet.
I didn't read the article but I did want to say my piece on what actually happens here.

catonmylap

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 5:36 am

Liba wrote:

If the burden of the copays is so hard, maybe looking into a gan safa (class for kids who need help with language) would make sense? When my kids were in gan safa they got speech, OT, and emotional therapy - all for free. In full chinuch meuchad (special ed) my son got all of the above plus physical therapy as well.

Sometimes you need more therapy on top of what is provided in the gan. We had ds going to speech therapy in addition to what was offered in gan.

In terms of co-pays, I think it's much better that there are co-pays. When you don't have co-pays in the system, it gets abused by being going when they shouldn't because it's free, and there being long waits for specialists.

Here it's an advantage that there are both co-pays and there is an option of paying for private care when you need it. I saw in Canada how no co-pays caused problems.

The schnoorers going to the US to ask for money to make weddings and buying apartments are screwed up... I also don't understand those Israelis who collect money for health care abroad..it's hard to believe there are so often no good enough treatments here, and supplemental insurance should cover going if there are not.

DrMom

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 5:52 am

One can live modestly and live a good life here in E"Y. Basics like healthcare are not tied to your employment situation or to your specific job, so you don't have to be concerned about not having this basic cost covered. Daycare is much more affordable here. Food is pricey, but if you eat like an Israeli and not as an American, it is more affordable.

I don't know how this compares to living off welfare in the US. I don't think that's much of a financial plan in any case. One should plan to work to support oneself. Welfare is supposed to be a fallback if plan A fails.

Raisin

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 5:54 am

I would think the really poor are probably single mothers/parents. When a relative of mine was refused a get by her husband, (for several years) she was not counted as a single mother so did not get any benefits. !!!

I know one poster here who is a single mother has posted several times about her struggles and how the israeli system is spectacularly unhelpful towards her.

RachelEve14

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 6:28 am

Liba wrote:

RachelEve14 wrote:

Liba wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

And if your child goes to hitpatchut hayeled for 2-3 different treatments each week? each at 20-something shekel? And you have 2 children who each need such help?

If they are getting that much therapy because they need it, they may well qualify for disability. If they qualify for disability then there are no copays for therapy or specialists.

Liba that is not true. I have had a kid in OT and speech at the same time, or OT and art therapy, but needed but also not B"H issues serious enough to be covered under BL.

I didn't promise they all will, just said that the majority of the kids that I have met who need three different types of therapy weekly do.

I think that it is also noteworthy that if someone is disabled that they aren't charged the copays for doctor's visits and therapy. The government cares about the most vulnerable and does their best to try to take care of them.

I know. I was just saying here it seems to be VERY common to have a gan aged kid in 2 therapies and in a regular class, etc. Many people I know. Not to mention siblings.

Marion

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 6:49 am

Liba wrote:

He's IN chinuch meyuchad. He's not getting enough there so we take him to hitpatchut hayeled as well.

Liba

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 6:52 am

Marion wrote:

Liba wrote:

He's IN chinuch meyuchad. He's not getting enough there so we take him to hitpatchut hayeled as well.

Needing daily therapy is one of the qualifications for getting disability for a child, through bituach leumi. It sounds like you have a good case.

Marion

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 7:35 am

Liba wrote:

Marion wrote:

Liba wrote:

He's IN chinuch meyuchad. He's not getting enough there so we take him to hitpatchut hayeled as well.

Needing daily therapy is one of the qualifications for getting disability for a child, through bituach leumi. It sounds like you have a good case.

Nope. It's not physical therapy and it doesn't affect his ability to care for himself.

saw50st8

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 9:01 am

In the US, even on great insurance plans you have copays. Every time I bring the kids to the pediatrician its $21. $31 for a specialist (therapies would be under this). Plus I pay 10% for labs and surgery and all sorts of other things.

Once I reach my out of pocket maximum of $1,000, I *only* have to pay copays.

I have GOOD insurance. Most people I know have worse plans.

Im hard pressed to feel bad for Israelis.

Tablepoetry

Fri, Jul 19 2013, 9:21 am

saw50st8 wrote:

I agree with you.
$21 for a pediatrician!!! I can take my kids twice a week if I feel they need it, and pay NOTHING.