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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Ruchel
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 Mon, Sep 16 2013, 10:13 am
Not everyone holds you cannot listen to music from someone non Jewish/frum.
Not everyone holds German operas are forbidden, either.
If we start telling BTs, FTBs, and face it, most older generation FFbs too that they cannot do ANYTHING they used to do, we'll see the % of yearly newcomers fall close to zero...
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Rutabaga
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Mon, Sep 16 2013, 11:42 am
We inherited a TV from my grandfather when he moved. It sat in our house for years before we ever hooked it up. That's not to say we never watched TV, because we did on our computers. We only got our TV hooked up recently because it was cheaper to get basic cable, phone, and internet bundled together than just phone and internet. Even though we have it, we barely use it. I prefer watching stuff on my computer, where I can watch it when it's convenient for me and pause it when necessary. The only time I ever let DD watch TV is when I cut her nails (the distraction helps) or when she is really sick and has no energy to play.
Although I have to say that I'm looking forward to being able to watch the Olympics on TV and not just watching clips online.
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the world's best mom
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Mon, Sep 16 2013, 12:53 pm
I think there's a huge difference between watching tv and watching videos, whether on the internet or on dvd.
Regarding dvd's, you buy what you want to see. Then you can see it as often as you'd like to, at your convenience. I own lots of Uncle Moishy dvd's and that enables my children to watch UM and only UM. It doesn't give them the freedom to watch whatever some tv producer decides to put on tv. No matter how hard they try, it won't work.
Internet definitely closer to tv, but still has a big advantage. If my kids want to watch something, they choose a character (Thomas, Dora, Curious George, Winnie the Pooh or Sesame Street.) I do not allow them to watch Arthur because I don't approve of it. It will not come on by itself, ever. It needs me to type "Arthur" into the search box in order to turn it on. Nothing comes on unless I click on it.
Tv is riskier because you turn it on and there is a show. It may not be appropriate, but it is on, even though you haven't given it your approval. You can change the channel, but by then it may be too late- your children may have picked up a new curse word or seen something that you didn't want them to see. You turn on a children's channel, and there's no guarantee that you'll get to watch sesame street right now, no matter how badly you may want to. And if you do get to watch it, it may be followed by Arthur or something much worse, and without waiting for you to click on anything, the program just changes on it's own.
Also, if someone wanted to see what other shows exist on tv, it's a simple matter of pressing up and down arrows on a remote control. You press that channel button and a filthy show may just pop up on the screen. On the internet, you need to either search for a show or maybe you can find things if you're a pro at searching. I wouldn't know how to do that, and my children certainly wouldn't either.
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Ruchel
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Mon, Sep 16 2013, 12:58 pm
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It is very easy for the kids of this generation to find something on the unfiltered internet.
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the world's best mom
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Mon, Sep 16 2013, 1:06 pm
| Ruchel wrote: | | It is very easy for the kids of this generation to find something on the unfiltered internet. | Right. Once they're old enough, that is. And that's when a good filter becomes a necessity.
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saw50st8
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Mon, Sep 16 2013, 2:30 pm
| Raisin wrote: | I think there is a difference in the way people watch stuff on a tv or on dvds/coputers/tablets etc. With a tv, it seems (not from my experience, I've never owned one) that people turn it on and leave it on all day, or turn it on and watch whatever is showing, good, bad or mediocre.
with a computer, you tend to much more selective about what you are watching. This can be good or bad.
either way, watching tv will definitely have an influence on someone. Some people think this is positive, some negative. |
IME, people who watch on DVD/computers have a tendency to watch for a longer chunk of time because the entire season of something is available. So if you watch something like "24" then you want to keep going. Its very easy to watch for hours on the edge of your seat. You are restricted with live TV.
We have TV with a DVR. We record what we want to watch and watch when convenient. I limit what my kids watch. I keep the TV on while folding laundry and doing other chores. Takes away a lot of the drudgery.
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sequoia
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Mon, Sep 16 2013, 3:18 pm
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I'm opposed to it for personal reasons.
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PinkFridge
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Mon, Sep 16 2013, 4:47 pm
| freidasima wrote: |
First it's a great babysitter for little kids. And no, if you are realistic and you have to either work from home or take care of a house and kids you cant be there playing with them all the time if they don't nap. Second, it's a great way that some people use to relax, my dh is one of them, he barely watches what is on but it's great background music to put on an old film (like the old MGM stuff on tv).
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Some of my earliest memories are being settled with the TV while my mother tended to the older kids as they came home from school. I will admit to having my crutches too - story tapes, books and toys from the library (there was a public library that lent out puppets and some toys also) among other things. It's not easy but while TV might be one option in the toolbox, it shouldn't be the only one.
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PinkFridge
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Mon, Sep 16 2013, 4:49 pm
| sequoia wrote: | | I'm opposed to it for personal reasons. |
Aw come on, you can't get away with that!  No, actually you can, and I'd be the first to defend your right to do so. But I will admit to being intrigued...
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Bruria
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Mon, Sep 16 2013, 11:08 pm
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We have a big screen that we connect to our computer, we don't have regular tv, so since it's just computer we can control what goes there. Honestly , there are so many shiurim and other stuff that can enrich ones life, technology is not bad!!! Nothing is bad if we use it for a good purpose, according to Torah.
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LeahRivka
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Mon, Sep 16 2013, 11:16 pm
| DrMom wrote: | Although I'm not a huge fan of TV, I disagree with the logic behind much of what you wrote.
| HSG wrote: | | TV just like music does have an effect on your neshama. About 2 years ago I stopped listening to secular music because I noticed I would "flashback" to before we were frum. Times, people, places that I associated with the music and lyrics. This made me uncomfortable on many levels. So I stopped altogether. |
SO people who are not BTs can listen to secular music because it does not remind them of time before they were frum? When I wasn't frum, I lived in California -- does that mean I cannot visit LA because it may remind me of non-frum memories? You can't use that sort of logic to make a blanket statement.
| HSG wrote: | | There is much written about Hitler and the music he used to listen to. One of his favorites was Wagner. Wagner also was a huge anti-semite. Many will not listen to his music for these reasons. |
Um, so?
| HSG wrote: | If I watch a show with an attractive actress in it, it could make me wonder if my husband finds her attractive, too. The clothing is certainly not tzinus, ever. She could be younger or thinner. What if there is an attractive actor? What if I then think of him? And let's not even go to the language...
When we have guests for Shabbos and the ones who are ba'al teshuva, frequently the conversation will lead to TV or movies. To me it lessens Shabbos.
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By that logic, you should not go outdoors or look at anyone because you may find someone attractive. Can you watch TV shows with ugly people?
I do understand the arguments about tzius and foul language (of course, you can select what to watch...), but the other stuff? No so much... |
First, I was speaking from personal experience and not making any blanket anything to anyone.
The main point being made is that whether you admit it or not, things affect you. Music, tv, books. The content of even a commercial can affect a person. Look at all the women who feel inadequate because of advertisements in magazines and TV.
Music can lift your mood or enhance a mood. Why couldn't it affect you in other ways?It can and does. Same for TV.
The vast majority of television is inappropriate for children. Even the shows on PBS stations. Did you know Bert and Ernie on Sesame street "came out" recently?
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Tablepoetry
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Tue, Sep 17 2013, 6:20 am
I'm wondering, all those of you with TVs at home who limit it to an hour a day, or half an hour a day.
How old are your kids? And where is the TV located?
Because in my experience, if you've got teens at home (not at boarding school/yeshiva) and you've got a TV in a public room (not in a closet in your bedroom), well, it's very very VERY hard to limit TV viewing time.
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DrMom
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Tue, Sep 17 2013, 7:17 am
| HSG wrote: |
The main point being made is that whether you admit it or not, things affect you. Music, tv, books. The content of even a commercial can affect a person. Look at all the women who feel inadequate because of advertisements in magazines and TV.
Music can lift your mood or enhance a mood. Why couldn't it affect you in other ways?It can and does. Same for TV.
The vast majority of television is inappropriate for children. Even the shows on PBS stations. Did you know Bert and Ernie on Sesame street "came out" recently? |
1. Of course things you see and hear and experience affect you. But you can watch uplifting, educational programs on TV and the overall effect will be positive. Conversely, if you choose to watch garbage, you will be affected negatively.
2. If you are going to make an argument, base it on actual facts, not hysteria or misinformation or rumor. Bert & Ernie did not "come out."  Some activists for gay rights may have used their images to promote their point of view, but the characters did not "come out" in any way shape or form. Do a simple google search:
http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/A.....ments
| Quote: | | 'They are not gay, they are not straight, they are puppets,' says Sesame Workshop President and CEO Gary Knell. 'They don't exist below the waist.' ” |
- Sesame Street: A Celebration - 40 Years of Life on the Street
| Quote: | | “ Bert and Ernie are best friends. They were created to teach preschoolers that people can be good friends with those who are very different from themselves. Even though they are identified as male characters and possess many human traits and characteristics... they remain puppets, and do not have a s-xual orientation. ” |
- Sesame Workshop statement, August 11, 2011 (issued in response to a Change.org petition to have Bert and Ernie marry which circulated shortly after gay marriage was legalized in the state of New York)
Again, if you have a TV, you don't need to turn it on and allow any garbage that is broadcast to seep into your skull. You can select quality programs. And if there is nothing to watch at a particular time, you can turn it off.
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Tablepoetry
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Tue, Sep 17 2013, 7:25 am
| DrMom wrote: |
Again, if you have a TV, you don't need to turn it on and allow any garbage that is broadcast to seep into your skull. You can select quality programs. And if there is nothing to watch at a particular time, you can turn it off. |
I agree with you in general, and I definitely would not have a problem with Sesame Street (or with Arthur, a program someone outlawed above). I'm pretty laissez faire about TV (my red line is violence. Including the news for young kids).
But....I still think that many people are speaking here as parents of young families. When you have a TV in your home, you have to think of it long term too. What will things be like as your kids get older. And I see that in most families with older kids, the kids will turn the TV on themselves after school. It's no longer so easy to just 'turn it off', especially if they are home before you or stay up later than you. And of course, if you have younger kids at home, they also watch at the same time.
I do think one should realize that unless you really want to be a policeman all day long, it's hard to 'select only quality programs' and 'turn it off' when you have older kids. (UNLESS you have no cable and only one channel, or UNLESS you've been blessed with kids who don't like TV, or UNLESS you live in a community where none of their friends are watching and it's not on their radar).
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shabbatiscoming
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Tue, Sep 17 2013, 8:22 am
| HSG wrote: | | The vast majority of television is inappropriate for children. Even the shows on PBS stations. Did you know Bert and Ernie on Sesame street "came out" recently? | Are you for real? Can you please give us a source for that?
Dont believe everything you read. (wow)
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chani8
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Tue, Sep 17 2013, 9:22 am
Yuck! I'd never want a tv in my home!!
The computers are bad enough!
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Barbara
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Tue, Sep 17 2013, 9:55 am
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | | HSG wrote: | | The vast majority of television is inappropriate for children. Even the shows on PBS stations. Did you know Bert and Ernie on Sesame street "came out" recently? | Are you for real? Can you please give us a source for that?
Dont believe everything you read. (wow) |
Bert and Ernie aren't gay. They are at the level of 4 year olds, and thus completely asexual.
Official Statements
“ Bert and Ernie, who've been on Sesame Street for 25 years, do not portray a gay couple, and there are no plans for them to do so in the future. They are puppets, not humans. Like all the Muppets created for Sesame Street, they were designed to help educate preschoolers. Bert and Ernie are characters who help demonstrate to children that despite their differences, they can be good friends. ”
- Sesame Workshop's consumer response prepared statement, 1993.
“ 'They are not gay, they are not straight, they are puppets,' says Sesame Workshop President and CEO Gary Knell. 'They don't exist below the waist.' ”
- Sesame Street: A Celebration - 40 Years of Life on the Street, p. 47.
“ Bert and Ernie are best friends. They were created to teach preschoolers that people can be good friends with those who are very different from themselves. Even though they are identified as male characters and possess many human traits and characteristics... they remain puppets, and do not have a s-xual orientation. ”
- Sesame Workshop statement, August 11, 2011 (issued in response to a Change.org petition to have Bert and Ernie marry which circulated shortly after gay marriage was legalized in the state of New York) [5]
WADR, anyone who is worried about the s3xual orientation of a Muppet needs to (a) get her mind out of the gutter; and (b) get a life.
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LeahRivka
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Tue, Sep 17 2013, 10:24 am
Thank you all for attacking me. Reminded me why I don't generally post on forums.
Was expressing my view of TV to the original poster, from my life experience.
Here is the article.
http://www.newyorker.com/onlin......html
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fmt4
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Tue, Sep 17 2013, 10:45 am
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The newyorker made that cover without any support from Sesame Street. As Barbara posted, Sesame Street does not support the idea of Bert and Ernie as s-xual beings.
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shabbatiscoming
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Tue, Sep 17 2013, 10:47 am
| HSG wrote: | Thank you all for attacking me. Reminded me why I don't generally post on forums.
Was expressing my view of TV to the original poster, from my life experience.
Here is the article.
http://www.newyorker.com/onlin......html | And anything on the front of a magazine means it is automatically true?
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