What shall we do? | Imamother

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

What shall we do?

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thePrimaIma

Mon, Oct 21 2013, 3:51 pm

Have her watch The Notebook. Trust me. She will want a man.

oliveoil

Mon, Oct 21 2013, 4:14 pm

DavidsMom wrote:

Have her watch The Notebook. Trust me. She will want a man.

Sounds like something Dolly Welsh would say!

angelinheaven

Mon, Oct 21 2013, 5:20 pm

Op, there is a woman by the name of Chani Getter who grew up Hasidic, got married, and had children then "came out" as gay. It might do you good to read her story since it may help you understand your daughter a little better.

http://www.tabletmag.com/podca.....-down

http://www.inspirationallivinginc.com/about

FranticFrummie

Mon, Oct 21 2013, 5:45 pm

Shaming or blaming the mother for what her daughter is watching is NOT helpful here.

Here's a question no one has asked yet. What kind of [filth] is she watching?

Hardcore or soft (erotica)?
Boy/girl or girl/girl? Both?

If she's watching boy/girl, based on that I wouldn't want to have anything to do with boys either! Who wants to be treated as an inhuman orifice?

If she's watching girl/girl, it's often romanticized, with none of the complicated relationship dynamics that come from actually having two women trying to work out feelings for each other.

Either way, she's getting a very narrow, unrealistic picture of what relationships (and relations) is like.

Please don't ask me how I know all of this stuff. embarrassed

I thought about posting as amother, but I think it's important that OP understand that I really do care about what's going on.

Barbara

Mon, Oct 21 2013, 6:14 pm

DavidsMom wrote:

Have her watch The Notebook. Trust me. She will want a man.

It would just make me want to watch a movie with a decent plot.

If she's not attracted to boys, she's not attracted to boys, and watching the Notebook, or being courted by the Jewish versions of John Stamos, Channing Tatum, Bradley Cooper, Ian Somerholder, and let's throw in a little Derek Jeter for good measure, isn't going to help.

If she's confused, let her work out her confusion.

One way or the other, she's not ready for marriage.

BTW, is she watching gay or straight [filth]? That might be a clue to whether there is confusion, or she's just scared of the answer.

PAMOM

Mon, Oct 21 2013, 7:49 pm

OP, I don't need specifics, but is what she's watching truly [filth] or movies, tv shoes with explicit scenes? I know that some don't distinguish between the 2, but is she curious and/or looking for validation or watching truly hard core stuff where people are used as objects?

PinkFridge

Mon, Oct 21 2013, 9:01 pm

On the previous page I said that for sure she should see someone. I realize that there's a broad spectrum of what she could be watching, some of it not considered too objectionable by some. But either way, it sounds like she's experiencing some disconnect, whether her sxuality, expectations, etc., and I think she would still benefit from speaking to the right type of person to get more centered.

thePrimaIma

Mon, Oct 21 2013, 9:49 pm

Barbara wrote:

DavidsMom wrote:

Have her watch The Notebook. Trust me. She will want a man.

Barbra, I am really confused by your response to my post. You know I was joking, right? I guess you can blame my lack of judgment that this thread was a joke-free zone, because now I feel horrible for have posting it! Sorry to have offended anyone here with my corny joke

thePrimaIma

Mon, Oct 21 2013, 9:52 pm

oliveoil wrote:

DavidsMom wrote:

Have her watch The Notebook. Trust me. She will want a man.

Sounds like something Dolly Welsh would say!

Sorry, don't know who that is

amother

Mon, Oct 21 2013, 10:01 pm

Why oh why is she watching [filth]??? Get to the source of that and you may have the answer you are looking for regarding her orientation.

Bruria

Mon, Oct 21 2013, 10:03 pm

I know what I am going to say is not very frum, but I think in this case there should be an exception and let her be more around boys,even if it's a bit modern for you. She might just need to get to know boys better, that could be all, you know?

amother

Tue, Oct 22 2013, 7:08 am

PinkFridge wrote:

amother wrote:

This is why I do not think it is healthy to give teenagers no contact with the opposite relations.
how can she develop an attraction to boys if she has never been around any?

Girls don't live in a bubble. They have cousins, friends' brothers, may have some media exposure, all sorts of options to form various opinions. I really don't buy this argument.

OP, I would tell her that this comes out of left field for you and you need to do some thinking, but that meanwhile as far as the world's concerned she''s not ready yet. I would consult with "specialists" - rabbanim and rebbetzins, therapists, etc., people in the trenches - who deal with frum gay people who really want to stay frum but reconcile feelings. There are good people out there though I don't have a clue who. But these will be calm, thinking good people who just might be able to give you a script, and whom you might feel comfortable enough with to have your daughter contact.

I'm not assuming anything as far as her orientation goes. Someone who has good counseling experience and deals honestly and helpfully with this demographic might help her better sort things out. Hatzlacha.

Her friends might not have brothers, or if they do, they might be younger or much older. Girls are generally not attracted to young boys or those who look much older. Similarly, she might not have any male cousins, and even if she does, in general, there is an icky feeling about "being attracted" to a family member, so people shun those feelings of attraction away and try to disregard them. The same goes for "friend's brother". If she comes from a very religious home, she might not even have a television and certainly not read magazines so she might not see any males in the media. And even if she does see a few male family members, these will only be like her brother, father, maybe cousin. You cannot marry any of these people, and it is an attraction that will not promote healthy heterosexuality, because a girl would try to dismiss these feelings.
If a girl does not come into contact with guys around her own age (not to have relations with G-d forbid), but just to socialise with friends - and as a group - religious guys from school, Bnei Akiva, shul, other youth/Zionist group etc, which is totally healthy (and btw often leads to a marriage), then how is she going to feel attracted to men?

QuellingandQvetching

Tue, Oct 22 2013, 7:35 am

I have known so many gay individuals who hid it because of what their parents expected and ended up in marriages as a result. It leaves more than just the gay person in a bad situation, think of the spouse who will never be properly loved and the children who are in the middle of it.

She needs to talk to a neutral third party (a good idea for any teenager). I don't have teens but I have been looking at this forum b/c I am often the person my many teen nieces and nephews come to for guidance and I'm trying to understand them better. I think if one of them came to me with these sorts of feelings I would get them a good therapist. Someone Jewish who understands their faith, but someone who also has a degree in clinical psychology or and MSW and has dealt with teens before.

June

Tue, Oct 22 2013, 8:30 am

amother wrote:

If a girl does not come into contact with guys around her own age (not to have relations with G-d forbid), but just to socialise with friends - and as a group - religious guys from school, Bnei Akiva, shul, other youth/Zionist group etc, which is totally healthy (and btw often leads to a marriage), then how is she going to feel attracted to men?

Um, no. I grew up without any contact with boys outside my family, and as a teen I had a typical healthy attraction to boys. So did most other girls from my circles.

What are you basing this on?

QuellingandQvetching

Tue, Oct 22 2013, 8:46 am

June wrote:

amother wrote:

Um, no. I grew up without any contact with boys outside my family, and as a teen I had a typical healthy attraction to boys. So did most other girls from my circles.

What are you basing this on?

Yes, I was wondering that too. I agree that the frequent separation of boys and girls is fraught with issues when shidduch time comes along. Learning to socialize with the opposite relations is not easy, and to start only when you are in your late teens/early twenties it is tough. And we have all heard the stories of British boarding schools where boys and girls are separated and experiment with each other even though they are not necessarily gay.

That's why it is so necessary for a teen to have someone to work their feelings out with. Someone who won't judge them or guilt them or report back to parents. A good therapist will, of course, let parents know if the child is a danger to themselves or others. But, otherwise the child can feel comfortable working through what their feelings are. We live in a much more complicated world with more choices, that's a blessing and a curse.

amother

Tue, Oct 22 2013, 8:54 am

opposite "relations". Rolling Eyes

supermom3

Tue, Oct 22 2013, 9:04 am

QuellingandQvetching wrote:

I have known so many gay individuals

Really? I know only one

greenfire

Tue, Oct 22 2013, 9:07 am

amother wrote:

This is why I do not think it is healthy to give teenagers no contact with the opposite relations.
how can she develop an attraction to boys if she has never been around any?

on the most part I agree with you

however, if a person is gay - they are going to be gay regardless of whom they hang out with ... and yet if they are overly hormonal and all they have are the same gender around - they may get bi-curious

sequoia

Tue, Oct 22 2013, 11:45 am

People get bi curious and then they move on. Let her get back to you when she is 21-22. Meanwhile time for normal guy friends.

For a sensitive girl, the notion of marrying one of these aliens may be too much, and they retreat to same sx attraction. As a girl on frumteens put it, "you're taught your whole life that guys are evil pigs and then you turn 19 and you're supposed to marry one?"

amother

Tue, Oct 22 2013, 11:46 am

in shana bet various teachers gave us "marriage classes"- one teacher told us two things- one was you and your husband can do whatever works for you- it doesn't matter if other people would be horrified that you for eg. serve peanut butter and jelly sandwhiches for dinner every night. The other thing was that she said was that it is not unusual for girls who grow up only around girls to feel like they are gay. That a girl shouldn't get nervous if she feels like she is more attracted to girls then boys. There is supposedly some phenomenon in the army of a lot of guys in guy only units to act gay. She said to wait until you are 23 before even worrying about the fact that you don't want to get married. She said she was saying something because she gets e-mails from girls after seminary saying that they are nervous that they are lesbian.... If this is something she felt the need to say to seminary girls I'm guessing it wasn't just one e-mail she was getting....

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