Should I send my dd??

groisamomma

Wed, Oct 23 2013, 11:14 pm

amother wrote:

OP here, the outing would take place from 9am and they would leave the park at 5 for the drive home. They are NOT staying there when it's dark.
I'm not afraid to say no, I already did say no, I'm just asking what the olams reaction was be if it was your daughter. I'm not asking for validation, just opinions.
My fear is that some

Interestingly, my non-Jewish colleague mentioned to me that her Sunday will be taken up by a trip to Six Flags this week with her-you guessed it--15 year old and her friends because they want to go for the Halloween attractions but my friend doesn't want to let her go without an adult at this time of year. And her kid is a really good and responsible teenager.

shanie5

Wed, Oct 23 2013, 11:16 pm

If the park was 1/2 hour or less from my home, I would let her go.

If there was an adult along who would be in the vicinity (girls did not have to hang around her, just check in every so often), I would let her go.

Go with a group of girls, no chaperon, close to 3 hours away-nope, no way, no how, not happening! Not safe. Not smart.

Someone is needed to be there in case of emergency.

DrMom

Wed, Oct 23 2013, 11:48 pm

amother wrote:

OP here, a matron is a woman hired by the bus company to help seat the children and to walk them on/off the bus. Also she's there so kids aren't alone with just the driver. For our purposes, she will just be a person on the bus but will not be walking around the park with the girls. Her job is strictly ON the bus.

I don't see why a 14-year-old needs someone to walk her off/on a bus.

I don't see the problem witnthe outing, although I'd be more inclined if it were a chol hamoed trip where the park is rented out by frum organizations.

chatouli

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 12:11 am

amother wrote:

chatouli wrote:

If Six Flags is such an impure place and is so spiritually dangerous, how come every chol hamoed I get a thousand emails from frum companies offering discounts?

Jewish companies rent it out on chol hamoed. You cant compare that to when its open to the whole world.

So let me get this straight.

The problem is not the distance, not the lack of a responsible adult to supervise, but the fact that there will be mostly g0yim there??

Oook glad we cleared that up. Do those of you who feel that is the issue avoid the zoo, the new water playground on the water in Brooklyn at Atlantic Avenue, Lord and Taylor, the mall etc? Didn't think so.

Kfar

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 12:12 am

I am actually laughing at this question -- there is no possible way I would ever let my 14/15 YO DD go on such a trip with her friends and a matron. And I too have been known to tell my kids that they can tell it to their psychiatrist when they are older if they feel so traumatized by a decision like this (although I have also been known to tell DS to call social services and see if they will come and "rescue" him when he acts up after I tell him no about something, like his desire last year to join a tackle football league).

amother

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 12:20 am

I have a 15 yr old DD and I would not let her go at this particular time. First bec. of the theme of the park and bec. of the theme there might be a different element of people and a different atmosphere than a regular day. Also who is renting the transportation? are they a reliable company? My daughter and her friends did just the same thing and rented a bus on their own to go someplace and their principal found out and made then cancel. Not one parent was upset about it.
Also if they did go I would like at least one chaperone that was to stay in the park just in case someone gets hurt or something and they would need an adult.

ima_dina084

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 12:28 am

Kfar wrote:

Too funny ! Loved this

ima_dina084

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 12:36 am

I remember how me and my friends were at 15. They could be the greatest girls but in a group of 15 of them it's more than very likely that some irresponsible behavior will occur. They lack the maturity for good judgment 100% of the time. Sure they can be great often but there's going to be a element of excitement and they might act out.
Or the people around them might take advantage of their young age and unsupervised circumstance espically if one or two of them wonder off or get lost some how.
There's no way id let them go alone unsupervised at 14 -15. I guess at 17? That's just me
And Halloween ??!?! Not a chance that's not the place to be. You know how many groups will show up in costumes (and I'm not talking queen ester) why should nice frum girls be in that party atmosphere?

ElTam

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 12:53 am

No way. Absolutely no way. Amusement parks are fun, yes, but there needs to be adult supervision. Those of you who are saying it's safe, you are deluding yourself. They have all the security etc. because their are problems. And there is plenty of untznius behavior going on. To go on a Sunday afternoon with family, or chol hamoed is one thing. On Fright Night? With a bunch of teen girls. No way. Absolutely no way.

causemommysaid

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 12:57 am

Dolly Welsh wrote:

There is nothing harmless about "a little flirting with guys while waiting on line."

sweetie we have different definitions of reality. having been a teenager a mere 5 years ago I still remember what it was like.

we giggled and eyed the boys in line at the amusement park. a few of us even exchanged a few words. somehow we all manged to make it home still virgins.

PinkFridge

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 9:15 am

chatouli wrote:

amother wrote:

chatouli wrote:

If Six Flags is such an impure place and is so spiritually dangerous, how come every chol hamoed I get a thousand emails from frum companies offering discounts?

Jewish companies rent it out on chol hamoed. You cant compare that to when its open to the whole world.

Chatouli, did you see amother 12:20 AM? She had a lot of cogent points. There are going to be kids in costumes, where you might not be able to read normal face or body or language, and a totally different atmosphere.
I remember going to the state fair the day of the nighttime Alice Cooper concert. As we left in the late afternoon there was an interesting element coming in. Sure, lots of people were having harmless fun, but for the most part, really creepy.

DrMom

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 1:56 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

It takes a nanosecond to get someone's phone number.

Nobody is talking about mamzerim. But we want a frum girl to approach marriage, which these girls may be five years from, with no remembered crushes outside their usual framework, to create comparisons. Life is just easier that way.

Even unlikely events have to be considered.

This is ridiculous. You don't think frum girls should go to Six Flags... because they might develop a crush on some non-Jewish boy standing in line for a ride? A crush which will haunt them their entire life and ruin their marriage?

Perhaps we shouldn't let frum girls go to the supermarket, or the mall, or the ice cream parlor. You never know when some non-Jew is going to hit them up for their phone number and ruin their life. It only takes a femtosecond!

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 2:20 pm

sequoia wrote:

Dolly, would you say the same about a girl who goes to an MO co-ed day school and youth groups, has guy friends, and probably has crushes like any teen?

I am just curious if it's about safety for you -- or something else.

NO. Why? Because these interactions are in the context of her social group.

The norms will work there.

Everything will be fine there in the situation you describe.

The situation under discussion in this thread is completely different.

I reiterate that what I was concerned about could be called an unusual, even rare occurrence, and only mentioned because it is possible.

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 2:25 pm

DrMom wrote:

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Supermarket, mall, ice cream parlor, all are fine. In all of these, it is not a general party atmosphere with people immobilized on a line. Completely different from the situation under discussion here. Supermarket, you are there to get it done. Mall, ice cream parlor, you have brought your own friends with you and you are moving around, in a psychological and social bubble of privacy. Other people may gaze at your group, but they can't enter it, so it doesn't matter.

Going to Six Flags with your family or an adult present, same thing. Bubble. Safe. Fine.

But what OP (poor OP, she made her decision pages ago) discussed here is a no-bubble, festive atmosphere specifically themed to have general fun, with Halloween thrown in for good measure.

Perhaps you think a group of fifteen year old girls can create and enforce their own privacy and protection bubble.

They might. But they easily might not.

And if they don't, there is no social context to protect them, as there is in their own schools and camps, where their parents move in the same world as the boys' parents. And they are friends with the boys' sisters, so everybody is watching.

I would say, no amusement park without some kind of vague supervision, ever, before marriage for a frum girl. And forget Halloween.

No, your comparisons don't hold.