spinoff of "wrong" color nail polish

PinkFridge

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 9:26 am

mandksima wrote:

My daughter's Dati Leumi school does not allow nail polish. School rule. She put some on the minute Chanukah vacation started! She knows it is a school rule and not a house rule. Clear definition.

I have a feeling that your school has their rules for the same reasons our OOT BY does: sure, there are some basics that the community (and in our more RW circle) hold as obligatory, but when it comes to other things, like makeup, there is an understanding that it can be tasteful but that the school can't start policing and micromanaging. So when my girls wear nail polish when it's not school time, even as they remove it before school starts, they don't feel a disconnect.

I feel for everyone who is living a life where they and their kids feel disconnect. I won't knock these more rigid communities but I'm not sure how much of myself I could sublimate.

Barbara

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 9:47 am

PinkFridge wrote:

mandksima wrote:

My daughter's Dati Leumi school does not allow nail polish. School rule. She put some on the minute Chanukah vacation started! She knows it is a school rule and not a house rule. Clear definition.

Our school has lots of rules. Boys have to wear shirts with collars, and cannot wear jeans. Certain types of backless shoes are not permitted for girls. The school is crystal clear, however, that those rules are not halachic.

Its made clear that other rules are halachic -- boys must wear kippot at school, and have something on their heads (could be a baseball cap) outside of school.

So maybe nail polish for kids is a dress code issue for the school, and the school really doesn't care what people do outside.

But what if it weren't. What if the school truly took the position that nail polish is halachically forbidden. Would it be right to tell your kids "Pheh. They're nuts. Do what you want, just take it off after the weekend." Well, maybe, if you really don't have another school choice. But it is sending mixed messages.

Ob Lady Godiva's comment about giving into the "crazies" at school so as not to make waves .... well, maybe people need to start standing up to the "crazies" before they take over. If everyone "knows" there's nothing wrong with nail polish, then for heaven's sake, stand up and say it, before its embedded in stone that no Orthodox woman would ever wear nail polish, and those rabbis in the 90s and aughts were secretly preaching against it but afraid to say anything lest women go off the derech in droves.

lavendar

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 10:22 am

I agree that home and school should be on same page as much as possible I don't believe it's right to set ur kids up for the confusion but besides for confusion they don't fit in I've seen good girls get labeled in bais yakovs for things that other schools wouldn't make a big deal of then comes time to date and no body wants them mean time they never went against there parents ways . I was in a school were nobody looked at me my background and parents views was different I just didn't fit in I switched for high school and was main part in play G.O president blah blah all that stuff .send ur kids to schools were they able to shine

chocolate chips

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 12:04 pm

I didn't read through all the comments but I agree that it has to do with how you present it at home.
There are things that are done at home that may not be done in school. You don't have to say "you can watch a movie because we let and it is allowed but your school is stupid and they don't let" you just say the school has rules so whilst in school you cannot do xyz but at home you can.

As for mentioning movies, when I was a kid we didn't watch that many movies but my grandparents had a tv and we used to watch when we went there. We knew not to mention it in school simply because we knew that not everyone approves of tv. We didn't have one either but we did have a computer with dvds. We knew the head of the school did not approve of it, he probably knew we watched but so long as we didn't start singing the teletubbies theme tune and teaching it to our classmates he wouldn't make a fuss.

Its the attitude. Especially now a days when schools have so many rules some of which are necessary and some of which are not, either way, in a wide spectrum of families attending school there has to be some diversity on the scale. Not everyone fits into Box A.

bubbebia

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 1:59 pm

This is a wonderful lesson for our children in learning how to respect others' sensitivities. The whole "when in Rome" thing. We sent our kids to a school that was considerably more LW than we were because that was the only game in town. And don't start telling us we should have moved. You don't mess with someone's parnassa. But our kids learned all about respect. The school has certain rules that must be followed when you are there because it is a way for everyone to belong. And the rules in school are for everyone. When you get home, we have rules that our family. Sometimes they are different, but we obey the school rules in school because it is the right thing to do to make everyone comfortable.

black sheep

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 2:20 pm

mixed messages because you wear nail polish at home?

if you teach your children that everything you do is "right" and anyone different than you is "wrong", well then yes, you better do everything exactly the same as the school does because otherwise one of you is right and the other is wrong, and that will confuse your kids.

but if you teach your children to respect peoplewithout judging them, and to follow rules out of respect for the venue, and to respect authority for its own value, then they will know that not everything in life boils down to who is right and who is wrong. And then you can wear nail polish without confusing your kids.

I think the very fact that you are questioning if it is okay to not follow school rules at home shows a breakdown in your children's education.

pause

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 5:23 pm

In my community, a common school rule is that students may not enter the public library. It is for hashkafic reasons, obviously, and not bound by the hours of school.

Would you think it's ok to let your dd go into the library because you don't agree with the school's hashkafa? My mother didn't let us in; we waited outside and she went in to take out books for us.

With dress code, it's easier to separate school rules from home rules. But if it's hashkafic rules (even dress code which is presented to the girls in school as problematic, halachically or hashkafically,), do you think it's ok to undermine the teachings of the chinuch the school is providing?

I think it's expecting too much from the school and from the child. If you don't value the school's authority, how do you expect your child to accept anything from there? If you show that what the school says doesn't matter, your child will take that attitude with her into the classroom. Not a good recipe for a successful student, IMO.

Maya

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 6:47 pm

pause wrote:

Um, the reason why the library was banned was because they didn't want you to read the books, not because there was something wrong with the actual building. Your mother completely defeated the purpose by bringing them home for you to read. She undermined the hashkafic values of your school in the exact same way that you are ranting against.

mommyla

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 7:43 pm

Maya wrote:

pause wrote:

That depends. These days the actual library building is off-limits due to unfiltered Internet accessibility in it. So if pause went to school recently, that could've been the reason for the ban - not the books themselves - and her mother took out acceptable reading material without exposing her girls to the Internet and other "dangers" lurking within.

Now when I went to school we were encouraged to go to the library to do research, but it seems like those days are over!

33055

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 7:49 pm

Maya wrote:

pause wrote:

My son's school bans the boys from entering the library not reading the books. The administrator told me they have issues with the ease of use of computers and the social aspect of library plus I am sure there are books they would not approve of, but that was not mentioned. I discussed this issue with them before I signed my name to a contact agreeing to follow this rule.

I have seen most of the boys in my son's class at the Public Library. I was informed by two other Moms that they go to branches outside our town. This rule is flaunted by more parents than obeyed by them.

I am also informed that more boys than not go on computers. This is also contrary to school rules.

They have a rule that boys are not allowed on the internet. The they have other rules saying computers must have passwords and filters and parents must be in the room while they are using it. If the first rule is obeyed then there are no need for further rules. I explained that to administration.

granolamom

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 8:26 pm

imasinger wrote:

I send my kids to schools that are more to the right of our family because the alternatives were too far to the left for my tastes. There often isn't a perfect fit. Not in town, where schools have limits to enrollment and competition to appeal to a certain type, and not OOT, where choices are limited.

that's what I was going to post. that, and the school we chose happens to be a better educational model.

amother

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 9:19 pm

imasinger wrote:

Isn't there something to be said for teaching kids, "the school's standards are stricter than ours, and we honor them when we are there, even though we hold differently?"

?

But of course. Different standards for different situations. Do I dress the same for a wedding as for grocery shopping? For Shabbos as for a weekday? For a job interview as for a picnic? Come to think of it, I do see people at picnics dressed as for job interviews. They look ridiculous.

And I left off the part about "growing at your own pace" because if a person is content with her level of observance, let's say she's exactly as observant as she's been brought up to be, neither straying from the way she taught nor disrespecting parents by implying that their way isn't frum enough and the children have to "grow beyond" them ( there is in fact an inyan about that being a measure of disrespect to parents)--well, then that's perfectly fine. I don't believe one must become ever more stringent--at some point it ceases to be a meileh and becomes a pathology. Isn't that what the burqa ladies are doing?

If for some reason I send my kids to a school that frowns on secular lit or wearing baseball caps or sleeves above the wrist, I"M STILL THE MOM! I didn't sign a contract with the school saying I won't let my kids read Harry Potter or wear a Red Sox cap. We chose the school for whatever reason, but we didn't cede the right to bring up our kids to OUR standards. Yes, when in school we obey the school rules just as when we go to another state we obey the traffic laws of that state. That's not sending a mixed message; it's teaching respect for people who have different standards.

And I wonder why "respect" always seems to have to flow in one direction. What about a little respect for someone whose standards are less stringent than yours?

amother

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 9:19 pm

freidasima wrote:

The idea behind tznius is to blend in. Hence ot has to do with that. If the society around you is blatantly what you would consider not tznius maybe consider chaning society. But when there is a gamut, do as you wish within that gamut. If yhe school requires x as long as it isnt against that grain of yours, do x in school. End of story...

It was only on this site that I heard this mantra. tznius is not about blending in. there are specific halachos of tznius. some things do depend on minhag hamakom like covering toes. that's about it. but, no, tznius is not about blending in. that is why so many ppl on this site have these questions on tznius. NO IT'S NOT ABOUT BLENDING IN. That's why you have ppl saying, "oh you can't wear a hat or a tichel to the workplace or picking child up from school.better a shaitel." THAT, my dears, has nothing to do with tznius.

the idea behind tznius is to emulate the ways of Hashem. Sort of like the concept of tzim-tzum. Hashem pulls back and "hides" behind nature, etc. We hide ourselves as well (the concept of not showing off- that's tznius with our actions and with our bodies.) Now I will get off my soap box.

octopus

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 9:20 pm

freidasima wrote:

zaq

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 9:25 pm

Maya wrote:

pause wrote:

I don't know so much. The library gives the kids unrestricted access to everything it holds, much of which may be inappropriate. A mother selecting reading material for her children is a different scenario--her children's reading material is still being controlled. I'm fairly confident the mother is not bringing home Cosmo and 50 Shades of Grey.

Maya

Mon, Dec 02 2013, 9:29 pm

zaq wrote:

Maya wrote:

pause wrote:

The point is that the poster is Chassidish, went to a Chassidish school, and the rules there stated that girls are not allowed to read books from the library. Heck, in my school, even English Judaica was very strongly discouraged and referred to as "seforim chitzonim." So in this particular instance, it wasn't about free reign and unrestricted access. It was about the actual books.

Perhaps today the unrestricted computer access is an additional reason for a library ban.

zaq

Tue, Dec 03 2013, 12:52 am

I believe that I shall add to my daily brachot of thanksgiving a fervent one thanking G-d that I do not live in a community that would ostracize my child because of the color of my nail polish. The last time I wore polish, women were wearing shoulder pads like football pros, sneakers with thick white ankle socks, and Farrah Fawcett hair, so I'm not concerned about being shunned myself (at least not for my nail polish), but I am grateful beyond words not to be living in that type of community, anyway.