dd says her uncle pulled up her skirt and rubbed her- locked

amother

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:39 pm

Dd told her friend a deep dark secret that she better not tell anyone, that my bil sometimes pulls up her skirt and touches her tushie. Luckily, the friends mother overheard and told me about it. When I asked dd, she didn't want to talk, but I told her she must tell me if anyone ever touches her in a place that's not tzniusdig besides for me dh or the doctor. So she responded to my questions. She said he did this last week and one other time. She layed on the bed and he pulled up her skirt and rubbed her v@ginal area for a few minutes. She said dc was in the room, but dc can't talk enough to tell me about it.

Bil is 13 years old, the baby of the family, has ADHD, loves playing with guns and bombs, and I've always hated when he played with my kids. He usually takes my kids to play in the bedroom and locks the door. I was never comfortable with that, but my in laws thought I was nuts, so I just checked on them periodically. Telling his parents about this occurrence would only accomplish one thing: getting my fil so mad at us that he would never speak to us ever again.

So the question is what can I do about this? My first reaction was that he can never play with my kids unless an adult is in the room (and my in laws don't count as normal adults, quite frankly). But putting that into practice isn't so easy. My in laws wouldn't get why I am worried. They would nag me to leave the kids alone. We go there for Shabbos and Y"T sometimes, and I can't stand guard over all my kids all day and night. I also can't tell mil we won't ever come again. She and dh are very close. So what can I do to help bil and my to protect my kids?

MommyZ

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:44 pm

I wouldn't allow him to play with my kids at all. Period.

He needs therapy, and she may need therapy as well. It's serious.

amother

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:46 pm

You have a responsibility to protect your children. That means that even if you insult someone you must do whatever you can to keep your kids away from from him.

sayinghi

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:46 pm

This does not sound like something your dd made up. You seem to be weighing out the pros and cons of protecting your daughter and pleasing your in laws. Well here's how it goes, you are your dd parent which means come hell or high water you need to protect her regardless of your in-laws perception. You need to sit down with dd tell her you are sorry for not protecting her properly until now and that it is not her fault. She can never ever be with bil without you or dh present under any circumstances. Forget if your in-laws never talk to you again your dd needs you.

amother

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:47 pm

Not to be to harsh, but you allowed your DD to be in a yichud situation with a boy?!?! How was that ok?
My DD must keep her door unlocked and I find silly reasons to go into her room when she has friends over.

I would stop going to their house. Period. Talk to the family rav about how to handle telling your inlaws.

What does your DH say to this?

I was molested countless times by a cousin my own gender and age. I begged my parents not to send me there for shabbos and made up silly reasons why. I never told them the truth. This cousin isnt married, I dont even wonder why.

amother

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:47 pm

NEVER EVER leave your kids alone with him, or the inlaws if they won't watch well. Don't visit your inlaws, your child's emotional health comes before your inlaws feelings. I heard of stories where close relatives like cousins raped their cousins and they never told their parents. Your bil also needs help; maybe he was molested himself. Your inlaws should definitely be told about the incident. How old is your daughter? It would be a good idea if she spoke to a counselor.

bamamama

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:48 pm

No no no. If he's doing it to your kids, YOU HAVE AN OBLIGATION to speak to his parents about this. You have an obligation to talk to any other SILs you have or to anyone else who brings their kids to your ILs house.

BY STAYING SILENT TO PROTECT YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR ILs, YOU ARE PUTTING OTHER CHILDREN AT RISK.

I'm going to post this message and then report your thread if someone doesn't beat me to it. We are all mandated reporters. Sweeping this under the rug is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Your BIL needs help so that he doesn't hurt more kids.

greenfire

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:49 pm

tell your in laws in front of him that he MUST get therapeutic help or you will call the authorities - he is 13 there is still hope - but he is also old enough not to let it pass

do NOT go there or allow your children near him - not now NOT EVER !!!

Lady Godiva

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:50 pm

Your children should come before anybody else.
If you don't protect them, who will?
How old is your daughter?

cookiecutter

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:50 pm

amother wrote:

Two separate issues: 1. what to do to protect your daughter and limit any damage, and 2. What to do about your BIL. Where is your husband on this?

Regarding protecting your daughter and limiting any damage that may already have been done, the "ease" of putting it into practice is of no consequence. Nor is your inability to stand guard over your children all day. When someone is s-xually assaulting your child, you do whatever it takes to make it stop, including, if necessary, obliterating any relationship with your husband's family.

You should have her talk to a therapist ASAP and you should educate yourself about the potential effects of s-xual abuse and how to ameliorate them.

Regarding your BIL, he is young enough that he is not necessarily fully culpable for his actions, but he needs to learn what he is dealing with, and then he needs to deal with it. You need to figure out what is most likely to yield the best result in that regard, and do it, without regard for the consequences. I.e. if you think telling your in-laws has a 30% chance of resulting in therapy for the kid and a 90% chance of ruining your relationship with them, while talking to his rebbi has a 15% chance of resulting in therapy or assistance for the kid and a 30% chance of ruining your relationship with your in-laws, you tell your in-laws and run the risk. The safety and long-term emotional health of two children is at stake here; your in-laws feelings and where you eat on yom tov don't really come into play.

amother

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:52 pm

Why isn't your dh handling this? His family, he handles. No need for you to be the one.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:53 pm

I second all the above!

Does your DH know? Do you really think he would side with his parents over the health and safety of his own child?

I am horrified.

Please, for the love of everything good, keep your daughter safe no matter WHO you have to tick off. (I'm trying really hard to watch my language right now.) This is an emergency!

Lady Godiva

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:53 pm

amother wrote:

Why isn't your dh handling this? His family, he handles. No need for you to be the one.

Heck, no!
Her children, she's involved. PERIOD.

cs1

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:55 pm

Yes, you cant avoid going to your in laws.
You and your dh should sit down with your bil and tell him in very strict and clear terms that he cannot touch your daughter again and cannot be in the same room alone with your kids.
Be on top of him and give him looks. He is old enough to be responsible for his actions and he knows he did something wrong - now he will own up to it and get a major lecture from you.

amother

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:56 pm

I had a story a few years ago with my three year old duaghter and her bus driver, it was a chesed that we found out about it. We didnt either know if we should involve higher authorities or just sweep it under the rug, our parents advised us that the right thing to do was to involve the higher authorities, and we did. To make a long story short the driver was approached, and fired from his job, and the rav, and hanhala of the school were very thankful for bringing the issue to their attention....

bamamama

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:56 pm

Lady Godiva wrote:

amother wrote:

Why isn't your dh handling this? His family, he handles. No need for you to be the one.

Heck, no!
Her children, she's involved. PERIOD.

^yeah that. Maybe her dh can make the call, but the parents have to circle the wagons and protect their kids together right now.

amother

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 10:57 pm

how old is your DD?

amother

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 11:02 pm

bamamama wrote:

OP here. Staying silent will not be putting other kids at risk. The other kids will just as much at risk if I do speak up because no one will believe me. That's why I don't know if it's worth having my in laws cut off all ties with us. I know my main job is to protect my children, and I'm trying to figure out how to do that. If the only way is to anger my in laws then I will. Don't worry.

Dh works in a place where there is a psychologist. He is planning to ask him what to do. Dh thinks dd may be making it up, but I told him I don't think so and he should ask the psychologist what the chances are that she would make this up. He said he could speak to his brother, but I told him that will not help a thing because he needs professional help. I can't see how to get him that help though.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 11:03 pm

cs1 wrote:

What the heck? What kind of universe do you live in, because I do NOT want to go there! Mad

YES, they can, should, and MUST avoid the in laws.
NO, the daughter should never be in the same house with her molester, EVER AGAIN.
Giving someone "looks" is NOT going to stop deviant behavior.
The boy is bar mitzvah age, a "major lecture" won't phase him a bit. He'll just learn to be more sneaky.

The daughter needs to know that her parents believe her, will protect her, and will keep her out of a dangerous situation. Anything less than that is a major betrayal of trust.

I suppose I should be happy that you are so naive that you believe what you are saying. At the same time, I can't help but pity any children you have that might fall prey to an abuser.

geulah papyrus

Thu, Dec 05 2013, 11:04 pm

You are the protector of your children. You are their advocate. When they cannot speak, you must be their voice. Please listen to all who tell you to keep your children away from this child. Stay out of their house. Report this situation.