dd says her uncle pulled up her skirt and rubbed her- locked

QuellingandQvetching

Fri, Dec 06 2013, 1:22 pm

It is very straightforward, a child was violated s-xually. The only way to deal with this properly is to call law enforcement b/c they are the only ones with the resources to deal with the situation and figure out what happened. They are the only ones with even the remote possibility of having the power to stop the perpetrator from victimizing more children.

ALso, if protecting your child against rape causes a divorce and you let your child be abused to save a marriage you have failed as a parent. Is this Judaism? Is this the Judaism of loving kindness and the Judaism that is child centered? This perverse form of Judaism where we let our children become victims to preserve our lifestyle is not the Judaism I recall learning about. Where does it say that children can be victimized and we shall turn a deaf ear to the abuse? Where does it say that a 13 y.o. boy who molests a little girl has more significance than the little girl? Where in Judaism does it say that we should throw our children to the wolves simply b/c it is an inconvenience to protect them?

The orgs listed are support groups for abuse survivors. They don't have the power or resources to do anything. I guarantee that they will tell the OP to call the police and she won't. She will worry more about the proper roasting time for her shabbos chicken than she will about the mental and physical health of her daughter.

bamamama

Fri, Dec 06 2013, 1:45 pm

QuellingandQvetching wrote:

amother wrote:

QuellingandQvetching wrote:

Please please please call the police. They have special officers who are trained to talk to children and figure out what is going on. If you allow this to go on or to go unpunished other children, including yours, will get abused further. ANd then he'll graduate to full on rape and other types of abuse. The bigger he gets the more power he'll have over his victims. If you don't report this you are the worst kind of mother and the worst kind of Jew. I get that stuff happened that you cannot undo, but are you going to sacrifice your child for the sake of playing nice with your in-laws? Are you willing to sacrifice other people's children for the sake of this one little abuser?
I am struggling to conceive a child and then I hear about women like you who are lucky enough to have beautiful and healthy children and you're willing to just hand them over to be abused. A real mother protects her child with every ounce of her being, she sacrifices her own wants to keep her child safe.

I thank you for you kind words. Rolling Eyes

So call me what you want, it's not going to scare me into doing the wrong thing. I fully intend to report this, as I have been saying all along, the question is to who and how do I go about it. The police are not the right choice in every situation. This is a child who can be helped in other ways if his parents allow it or if they are forced to allow it, and that is what we will try to accomplish. I am not sacrificing any children, thank you. I am taking care of this problem in the way that I see best for all parties involved. I have no interest in playing nice with my in laws. I just want to get bil the help he needs in a way that it will actually get to him. Have a good Shabbos.

I am sorry for your children. If you are not a troll then you are clearly a horrid mother. period. You would rather let your child get abused rather than ruin your shabbos dinner or your image iwth your in-laws. You will have no place in Gan Eden. Have a horrid shabbos, this weekend and forever more. May your children reject you as you have rejected them. May they take care of you in your old age as you have cared for them in their childhood.

QandQ, your harsh wishes were uncalled for. No one deserves them. Until I know differently, I'm taking OP at her word that she's going to follow through with this. She asked the olam and we told her what we thought. I suggest you watch and wait. I'm sorry for your personal situation.

bamamama

Fri, Dec 06 2013, 3:04 pm

QuellingandQvetching wrote:

My harsh wishes? Seriously? What is harsher than not believing your 7 y.o. when she tells you that she has been abused? What is harsher than not picking up the phone and calling someone who can protect her and prevent other children from abuse?

I am using restraint. Apparently there are some people here who don't value children and think that it is okay to just use them and toss them aside b/c they are kids so they aren't worthy of respect or safety.

Point to me where she said she didn't believe her dd? She said her dh didn't believe her dd, but IIRC, she always said she believed her.

I understand your anger, but lashing out and cursing someone is way, way out of line.

amother

Sat, Dec 07 2013, 9:13 am

QuellingandQvetching wrote:

amother wrote:

QuellingandQvetching wrote:

I thank you for you kind words. Rolling Eyes

Wow.
I am shocked. Just putting this whole thread aside ( I also believe that strong action must NOW be taken) this is horrible. What is with all the cursing?? Op please ignore this, I hope you will be taking immediate action against this boy (something is VERY wrong with him, and to protect your dd) but this is not true ignore it. Totally uncalled for and nasty.

Isramom8

Sat, Dec 07 2013, 9:24 am

Unless the police will ensure that the boy gets therapy, I don't see the wisdom in reporting a child that age. We had an intellectually delayed teenage girl in camp who touched another girl. The therapist's advice was to explain to the girl, clearly and firmly, repeatedly over several days, that she was not allowed to do this.

A therapist may be able to find out just how far gone this 13 year old boy is. Arresting him without knowing more information seems hysterical and can be damaging.

The OP will do more good in the long run by remaining calm and thinking out her actions.

freidasima

Sat, Dec 07 2013, 10:18 am

Complicated from all directions.

Here's a scenario. The OP informs the in laws, they don't believe at first but finally they are convinced that there is something there. The OP mandates her not going to the police with the boy getting mandatory counseling and keeping away from the niece for X amount of time when the situation can be reevaluated depending on what happens as a result of the counseling. The in laws aren't happy about this but they have no choice as OP and her husband are on the same page.

Here's a different scenario. The OP informs the in laws who refuse to believe her and dh, her dh is convinced by his parents that nothing happened, the OP gets divorced, the daughter gets counseling and half a week she's in the same house with her father, her grandparents and the BIL who continues to molest her and no one believes her except her mother and the counselor but no one goes to the police.

Same scenario but the mother goes to the police and the grandparents convince everyone that the mother is nuts and put it into her daughter's head, she loses custody and the father has her all the time...with the BIL in the same house.

Another scenario where the mother goes to the police and the grandparents convince everyone that it was all in the mother's head.

And so on.

It's a lot more complicated and could get a lot worse than people here think. From experience.

myself

Sat, Dec 07 2013, 11:19 am

I seriously don't understand all the bashing on this thread.

OP is dealing with the issue in a logical and sensible manner and seeking advice from those with experience. If things are dealt with appropriately, it may be more effective than traumatising a child with police involvement. And those calling OP selfish for worrying about divorce, I believe you're forgetting that divorce sometimes has long term implications too. Having DH on board is extremely important and will help in making her DD feel safe.

Good Luck OP!

chavs

Sat, Dec 07 2013, 11:39 am

QuellingandQvetching wrote:

Op already explained why going to the police isn't necessarily the best move. Her dh would divorce her which is a danger to her dd add he would get some kind of custody and would result in her dd being in the same house as the boy.
Please stop cursing her. She is doing her best. She said that if she needs to she will go to the police bit she needs to know what will be best as in what will NOT result in her dd spending time with the bil.

Success10

Sat, Dec 07 2013, 11:51 am

Hysteria and impulsiveness never accomplish anything. Her daughter is not in danger for the next couple of days, and it appears no other children are either, she is going to take care of it as soon as she can. I applaud the OP for approaching the situation with caution and thought. BIL is a human being, going to the police can ruin his chances of rehabilitation, and can actually result in worse circumstances for dd.

When all this blows over, IY"H, I might suggest that your DH needs a bit of therapy too. Hatzlocha, please keep us updated, we care.

Dolly1

Sat, Dec 07 2013, 1:02 pm

amother wrote:

You have a responsibility to protect your children. That means that even if you insult someone you must do whatever you can to keep your kids away from from him.

I agree 100%!!!
Yet I do not see the purpose of reporting to the police... Everything can be worked out in a normal and mature way. Police isn´t always the best solution. And, no, you are in no way a horrible mother! I´m sure you´re taking great care of your kids and will be dealing with this situation in an appropriate way. I would suggest you ask a Rav or somebody wise enough for advice on how to deal with this situation!
Good luck!

black and white

Sat, Dec 07 2013, 4:00 pm

Here I thought that Imamother was a safe place to discuss serious issues!!!
I dont understand how some people could bash completely someone they have never met or havent heard the whole story. The OP said she has every intention of protecting her child from her BIL but she is thinking through all the options that are available so there is minimum damage control all around. I for one think she is being very level headed ( I am not sure if I would be able to think calmly) and has promised to take action after reviewing all options, so stop being harsh and bitter watch what you say and offer her guidance and support, leave out your judgement and contempt.
To the OP I agree with you that your BIL is still a minor and having a record for life is not a good option here. I dont think you are being selfish but I urge you to talk to your in laws with or without your husband, they must know and he must be stopped.
Tell your daughter you know what happened and that you will protect her and keep her from harm from now on.

Della

Sat, Dec 07 2013, 4:15 pm

I am a SOVRI volunteer. They are not open until Monday at 9;00. If you need help before that, PM me and I will contact one of our staff social workers now for you.

This is serious. Please protect her. Do nt ever allow her near that boy again. It is your first duty.when a sibling touches a sibling, we always recommend having the perpetrator move out, at least temporarily, as a first step. That provides safety for the victim. She cannot even begin to heal until she is safe.

You are the only parent she has. Frankly, I would risk it all to keep her safe. She may never be around him again. Even if that means never going to your IL again (which based on that letter you wrote, would not be a bad idea). Then get her counseling. And yourself.

Hatzlcha.

dancingqueen

Sat, Dec 07 2013, 4:21 pm

OP, you said he locks the door and is alone with your children - so I would keep him away from your other children as well, he may have been touching them or behaving inappropriately with them too.

From where I sit, a 13 year old isn't a child. It's definitely young and immature, but not a child the way a 7 year old is. I'm a little surprised that some posters seem to minimize his behavior as though its normal teenage behavior to be curious and then go and touch young female relatives s-xually. This is alarming to me.

amother

Sat, Dec 07 2013, 4:29 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

I totally agree. A 13 year old boy knows right and wrong especially in THIS situation. He certainly knows it is WRONG to touch a girl in a private place, certainly a boy growing up with Torah and just any boy with a minimal conscience! I find it shocking that a 13 year old finds it ok to do this. This was not in any way a "mistake", as if it ever could be. It was something he carried out knowingly. It is very serious.

geshmak

Sat, Dec 07 2013, 4:45 pm

QuellingandQvetching wrote:

I am sorry for your personal pain, but that in no way gives you the right to be so nasty to the OP, or to curse her.
I am appalled at your post.