frum girl druged & abducted - Rabbi Wallerstein

amother

Thu, Dec 12 2013, 6:21 pm

people would surely know not to talk to strangers on the internet

I mean if it was a girl it is kind of different (but it can be a boy really), but since this was a man, and she knew it, why was she talking to him?

I once watched this programme where a girl was talking online to (who she thought) was a boy. It was actually her friend (girl), pretending to be a boy. The "boy" and her arranged to meet. It was her friend dressed as a boy. It was really sick. It got much worse at the end.

The internet is not safe, have to be careful.

amother

Thu, Dec 12 2013, 6:36 pm

amother wrote:

I only listened to the first clip.
Before anybody says that he has an imagination, I personally know a similar story that happened last year.

We are big R. Wallerstein fans. In fact I listened to him speak right after the 'incident' .
Teachers often use stories to bring up a point. To me, they lose credibility when doing so.
That being said, as soon as he said it, I called up a private investigator I know and asked him to verify the story. He has access to police records and other sensitive records.
He said that the story does not add up.

Similar stories can happen, but are usually verifiable, even if the victim is an adult.

amother

Thu, Dec 12 2013, 6:54 pm

amother wrote:

I only listened to the first clip.
Before anybody says that he has an imagination, I personally know a similar story that happened last year.

so it did not really happen? It's a story only?

What???

Ema of 5

Thu, Dec 12 2013, 7:10 pm

amother wrote:

I don't really understand your post. Obviously she didn't know better, because she talked to him, right? I didn't listen to the clip so I dot know the girls background, but if she hasn't had muh exposure to the internet and to the world outside of her little world, and she had not had any kind of education about what really goes on, why would she think that someone is something other than what they represent themselves as? If she's just been told internet is bad so stay away, she has no way to protect herself. Again, I dot know the story, so I could be totally off base, in which case just disregard everything I said :-) maybe she was reaching out of her box and was "intrigued" by the idea of talking to a man, and because she didn't really know much about what can go on, she was really trusting.

amother

Thu, Dec 12 2013, 8:09 pm

amother wrote:

I don't think this is right. This is not a joke, it's not funny.

People were worried and upset.

Did anyone hear the story from anyone other than R.W.?
Was her name on any tehillim list?
I rest my case.

Well then that is totally wrong. There is telling stories and there is also lying.

Ema of 5

Thu, Dec 12 2013, 8:29 pm

amother wrote:

I don't think this is right. This is not a joke, it's not funny.

People were worried and upset.

Did anyone hear the story from anyone other than R.W.?
Was her name on any tehillim list?
I rest my case.

Well then that is totally wrong. There is telling stories and there is also lying.

im confused....is someone saying that the story that rabbi wallerstein said in the clip isnt true? cuz that would make everything even worse....its like adam and chava- someone made something up, told it to someone else, that someone else tested it out and saw it wasnt true and said well if thats not true, I cant believe them about anything....

the world's best mom

Thu, Dec 12 2013, 8:54 pm

amother wrote:

I only listened to the first clip.
Before anybody says that he has an imagination, I personally know a similar story that happened last year.

The guy said the story doesn't add up? Why? That's not the same thing as checking police records and not finding any report of it. And even if he would have, that doesn't mean it didn't happen. How would he know which case it was or wasn't?

I also don't see why bringing in a story would decrease credibility, but that's not the point.

Rabbi Wallerstein seemed to be in genuine pain about something he had just experienced. I don't think he made it all up. And if he would have made up a story, he wouldn't have put himself in it so much. And he wouldn't have described how spooked out he was by the look in the girl's eyes, or by her mother's reaction. This is something that happened to him, like it or not.

However, if you choose to disbelieve him, check out the other videos posted for similar stories. They do exist. They are the reason we need to use caution on the internet.

amother

Thu, Dec 12 2013, 8:55 pm

eema of 3 wrote:

amother wrote:

I don't think this is right. This is not a joke, it's not funny.

People were worried and upset.

Did anyone hear the story from anyone other than R.W.?
Was her name on any tehillim list?
I rest my case.

Well then that is totally wrong. There is telling stories and there is also lying.

I'm not sure if it is true or not. That is what I am wondering but it appears to not have a definite answer/

amother

Thu, Dec 12 2013, 10:35 pm

amother wrote:

I only listened to the first clip.
Before anybody says that he has an imagination, I personally know a similar story that happened last year.

OMG you think Rabbi Wallerstein would reveal all REAL details? Your story makes less sense than his Twisted Evil

amother

Thu, Dec 12 2013, 11:35 pm

We all have to crawl into dark closets and stay there for the rest of our lives.
This story whether true or not, makes no difference, the way he expresses himself with the doom and gloom all or nothing attitude is scarier than the whole story.
Let's say it is true, why wasn't it in the news?
Why didn't we hear of it in any other way?
Why is his point get off of facebook! Facebook is not to blame, but a 19 year old girl should know what to do and not do on facebook.
I got propositioned on facebook last week. By a guy half my age. I told him I would help him find a shiduch!

Alef Bais

Fri, Dec 13 2013, 12:01 am

He makes crucial valid points. I am shuddering but I don't doubt any of his words. It is so important for this point to be made. The internet is dangerous - especially for teens who talk to people and don't know who they're talking to. I am glad Rabbi Wallerstein is emphasizing it. It cannot be said enough.

FranticFrummie

Fri, Dec 13 2013, 1:38 am

Everyone is careful to dress their small children in a tznius manner. They discuss yichud and shomer negiah with children LONG before they even think about things like shidduchim and marriage. It's called chinuch.

I take the same approach to internet use. I started telling DD about internet safety when she was 8, and she wasn't allowed to even go on a video game online until she was 10. By the time she's old enough to want to have her own FB account, she'll have safety drilled into her for many years in advance.

There are hundreds of websites out there with guides for parents. They can tell you how to teach your children, in age appropriate ways, what red flags to look for. They need to know when to block someone, and when to report someone. They need to know not to send pictures or to "chat" with someone they don't know IRL. The info is out there, we just need to get our heads out of the sand and start applying it.

Keeping kids too sheltered for the sake of "their pure minds" is not doing them any service. These days, forewarned is forearmed. If anyone (G-d forbid) goes after my DD, it will be in spite of everything I said, not for a lack of my saying anything.

wispalover

Fri, Dec 13 2013, 2:02 am

amother wrote:

Well then that is totally wrong. There is telling stories and there is also lying.

Well, to be fair, he also lied when he said Zumba has broken up hundreds of marriages. I think we could call these "unsubstantiated claims" as opposed to lying.

ChossidMom wrote:

I remember about a year ago seeing pictures of a frum girl posted on Facebook as missing. No details were given. She was found a few days later. No details given. Doesn't anyone here remember this?

Caroline someone from Englewood. She went to Frisch I think. Not exactly one from a sheltered home with no education on social media I would guess. She ran away and didn't want to be found IIRC.
http://www.northjersey.com/new......html

I think R. W has been watching too much MTV (Catfish and the like).

ima_dina084

Fri, Dec 13 2013, 2:06 am

gp2.0 wrote:

Dont have time to listen to the whole thing now and dont think I will later because just from listening for two seconds I've found incorrect information - being nineteen does NOT mean that abduction, drugging, rape and being sold will be considered consensual. For goodness sake. Rape is always a crime, no matter the age of the individuals.

He never said it meant that! He said its much harder to prove that it wasn't consensual -- as opposed to had she been a minor and it would of automatically been illegal. In the case of an adult it's his word against hers that she didn't take drugs on her own and run away with someone she fell inlove with ie him.

He emphasized that these kidnappers use heavy drugs on the girls so how can they later (if they even regain normal mental state ) prove that they were raped ? They don't even remember what happened to them!

As a side point I'm sure in this story the forged note can be used as evidence of an abduction as she is unable to write. But had she been capable of writing herself- they basically framed her well.

ima_dina084

Fri, Dec 13 2013, 2:08 am

theoneandonly wrote:

Being on the internet isn't what causes these things, being an idiot and meeting up with a complete stranger is what causes these things...

He never said she met with him! He said she was abducted from her house.
The point of his story is that once you make contact with them they have the technology to find you and kidnap /abuse you.

ima_dina084

Fri, Dec 13 2013, 2:11 am

ora_43 wrote:

His conclusions are absurd (disclaimer: I didn't listen to the whole thing). GET OFF THE INTERNET - because what, people can sneak through the internet tubes and kidnap you? It's like saying DON'T CROSS THE STREET because once someone walked into traffic without looking and was hit by a car.

And the whole thing about men targeting girls who are 18 or 19, because then they can claim it was consensual... whaaaa??? Who on earth has not heard of the concept that an adult woman can be a rape victim? OK, maybe some people haven't - but the entire American judicial system hasn't heard of that? Right.

That said, I think people are being too quick to say "educate your kids." I mean, of course, yes, by all means educate your kids, but don't assume that education = results. Even really smart kids (/young adults) with really careful parents can do really, really dumb things.

In fact, in my experience MOST smart kids with careful parents do at least one really dumb thing in life - it's just that most get lucky and that time where they got insanely drunk/ got stoned with men they didn't know/ went swimming drunk/ whatever ended without serious consequences.

It's a 12 minute clip. You didn't have time to listen but you had time to critique what he said :rolling eyes: