how to discuss joining chevra kadisha with dc

Chayalle

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 12:01 pm

PAMOM wrote:

I've also never heard of not talking to children about chevra kadisha. My father was a member and I found it very reassuring to know that he cared enough about members of the community to take care if them even after death. I especially liked the idea that the body had shomrim. It seemed like such an act of hesed to me.
However, I definitely see your point about not wanting to
Impose on dd--that shows you respect her. You could tell her that if she's ok with the idea, you'll try it but that if taking care if the baby starts interfering with her work or sleep, you'll stop for a while. They're always looking for help and you'll have been trained already.

Ditto, my father also used to volunteer for the Chevra Kaddisha and I knew about it - like if he was called, I knew he went but other details were never discussed. It was just something we accepted, and also respected.

octopus

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 12:05 pm

amother wrote:

greenfire wrote:

amother wrote:

OP again, I want to add to the discussion of it being cultural and being common where I live for seventh graders to babysit, that I live in the NY/NJ tri state area

it's not whether or not it's common ... it doesn't matter how smart she is ... if she's a bookworm ... if she helped change the baby's diaper once or 100 times ... a baby could wake up at any given time as well as a 5 & 7 year old ...

it's that you are putting parental responsibilities onto a 12 year old

OP here.

Is there any age that you think it's okay for? Would you not ask a 16 year old to watch a younger sibling because it's "putting parental responsibility on her?" Is asking her to help out with cooking putting parental responsibilities on her? (Full disclosure, I don't).

Also, I mentioned that she was smart and that she reads most nights in response to people's concerns that watching her sibling will take away from her schoolwork and time to relax etc.

If asking a 12 year old (specifically my capable, well adjusted, responsible 12 year old) to babysit occasionally is putting "parental responsibilities" on her, then I guess I am okay doing that.

a 16 year old is not like a 12 year old. in any shape or form. how can you even compare the two????!!!

Chayalle

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 12:11 pm

OP, I have a 12 year old DD, seventh grade. I want to encourage you to do this Chessed, Not only is it a mitzvah for you, it will actually build your DD (IMVHO).

My 12 year old babysits for neighbors all the time, and I'm so glad that she has the opportunity to learn to care for young children. I hope and pray that it will serve her well B"EH in years to come. (Of course, I allow her to babysit only for people I know and trust, and not for longer than reasonable, for responsibility she can handle, etc...)

Increased responsibility, when not overdone, is healthy and beneficial. If you do this Chessed, but not too often (I would think not more than once a week) it will be good for your DD. You should share with her that she gets schar for the mitzva. Maybe a treat or some individual time with you as a reward, can be something to consider, here and there.

I'm thinking of doing something myself in the realm of volunteering, now that my kids are bigger, and I'm encouraged that others are like-minded. Tizki L'mitzvos!

amother

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 12:18 pm

octopus wrote:

amother wrote:

greenfire wrote:

amother wrote:

OP again, I want to add to the discussion of it being cultural and being common where I live for seventh graders to babysit, that I live in the NY/NJ tri state area

a 16 year old is not like a 12 year old. in any shape or form. how can you even compare the two????!!!

Octopus, I realize there is a difference between a 16 and 12 year old. I was responding specifically to Greenie's post saying that I should not be putting parental responsibility on a 12 year old and was wondering at what age she thought it was okay. She responded that at no age is it okay to do so. Which was helpful to me because it makes me realize that we have a TOTALLY different viewpoint (I have more of Chayalle's viewpoint) and that in this respect, on this answer ONLY, I should take her response with a grain of salt (of course I respect Greenie's viewpoint on all things but on this issue I am going to have to just ignore her seeing as she wouldn't even ask a 16 year old to watch a younger sibling twice a month. . .)

Anyhow, perhaps I should start a spinoff on what age is appropriate for kids to babysit their younger siblings (which was NOT my original question) but I'm not going to bother because I already searched the other threads on that very topic and most (if not all) of the respondants to that question-and certainly the respondants (like Chayalle), who actually currently HAVE 12 year old DDs, responded that they leave their 11(!), 12, and 13 year old DDs home with their younger siblings for 1-2 hours.

freidasima

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 12:41 pm

Op I have a bit of a different take on this one than was posted here. You can of course take or leave what I say as you please.

First I think you should do it, but it depends on one thing. If your 12 year old daughter agrees to it. And the way I would put it to her is to say that you were asked to do chessed probably several nights a month in the chevra kadisha, that it is a big mitzva but that you can't agree without her help and therefore you want to know if she is willing to go into a partnership with you, and it will require her to babysit the baby and watch her sleeping siblings, but you are willing to give her half your "sachar" for the mitzva as you couldn't do it without her.

See what she says. She will probably ask you what a "chevra kadisha" does, and that's your opportunity to explain. She must be aware of the concept of death already and you can add what you feel is right.

But I would give her the opportunity to "share" this mitzva with you. She is already over bas mitzva and it is a real opportunity for both of you.

morah

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 12:49 pm

greenfire wrote:

there's a twofold problem here ... you are not asking your daughter to babysit because you HAVE to do something - but because you want to fill your life with a mitzva ...

I will reiterate ... what kind of mitzva takes from one and shells it out to the other ...

nobody here is robin hood ...

nothing should be done at the expense of your children ~ even a mitzva

If she asks her daughter (making it clear that she is totally free to say no), then how is that at the daughter's expense?

bubbebia

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 2:01 pm

My kids babysat outside the home starting at about 11-12. It was the acceptable age here at the time. They were also given the task of taking care of their sibs as well.

OP, originally you didn't specify how many other kids you had and what their ages were. Knowing that now, and knowing your daughter has experience caring for children, and knowing that you would indeed have the opportunity to say "no" if it isn't a convenient time, then I say go for it. There is nothing wrong with asking a kid to help out in the house--and that means caring for younger siblings as well. An hour or 2 a couple of times a month is no big deal. And if you explain to her how she is also getting schar for her part in this mitzvah, I'm sure she will be delighted to help out.

May your work in this special mitzvah come back to honor you both!

Chayalle

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 2:04 pm

greenfire wrote:

morah wrote:

She says the other kids are sleeping, except for the baby. Anyway, I just started a new thread on this matter, go check it out. I gotts run, pumping's up LOL

the baby - infant to boot ... is the most crucial one to lose out on mommy ...

I dunno....a loving older sister taking care of a baby for an hour or so is hardly losing out.

My DD's love babies. When my neighbor goes out for an hour and my DD holds her baby, that baby is being well-loved for the duration by a very doting young neighbor.

If OP's baby is ok with the arrangement, it can be positive for both her and her DD.

m in Israel

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 2:10 pm

greenfire wrote:

morah wrote:

She says the other kids are sleeping, except for the baby. Anyway, I just started a new thread on this matter, go check it out. I gotts run, pumping's up LOL

the baby - infant to boot ... is the most crucial one to lose out on mommy ...

greenfire, this is a totally different point than what you have been saying until now. Previously you were concerned about the 12 year old, and you clearly stated that it would be fine if the mother would hire a babysitter instead of relying on her DD (your earlier post said "go hire a babysitter & all is fine"). If OP hires a babysitter then the infant is "losing out on mommy" just at much. Honestly, it is a bit extreme to say that a mother can't leave her infant 2 times a month for 1 to 2 hours!

I get the impression that when you read the OP you interpreted it according to a preconceived image of a mother of a large family heavily relying on a barely teenage daughter to spend hours of her time caring for the younger ones while mother gallivants off to "do Chessed". In that scenario I think you would be totally correct in saying a mother shouldn't do Chessed at her daughter's expense. But I'm surprised that now that it has been clarified that this is not the situation, you keep pushing this point.

m in Israel

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 2:27 pm

Sherri wrote:

Mildly off topic- Am I the only one who has heard about not discussing the fact that one is on the CK? I do not think this includes keeping it from children in an instance such as OP's, but I am surprised that no one else ever heard of that.

Well, clearly the OP has heard that, too (she mentions it in her OP!) But it seems like most of the posters with family members in the CK (including me) never heard of it. As someone earlier mentioned, I have heard the concept of not discussing specifically WHO you did a tahara on -- but where I grew up the actual members of the CK were certainly known.

amother

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 2:30 pm

I also have a 12 year old dd and an infant. This is my opinion.

OP, if your daughter normally babysits for your kids and you both feel comfortable about having her babysit for 1 hour twice a month, that shouldn't be an issue. It doesn't sound overly burdensome (personally my infant is still nursing a lot and doesn't separate well, but that doesn't sound like your issue).

I think you can explain to your daughter what you are doing (you don't have to be too descriptive). I think it would be enlightening to her (even if it makes her a little uncomfortable), and she would appreciate being a part of the chesed.

I agree with the poster who mentioned the articles in Binah magazine by the woman who works for the chevra kadisha. If you could get ahold of them, you and she might like to read them. I am learning things as well. My dd reads Binah, I am going to ask her if she's read any of those and what she thinks. Smile

rzab

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 2:39 pm

I think it was very clear from the op that she was not asking everyone to evaluate her babysitting options but rather guide her in starting a conversation with her dd. Im not going to weigh in on my thoughts about kids babysitting bc its not so relevant hhere but it sounds To me like the situation was very well thought out and she has a very good option available.
I think you should be open with your daaaughter about chesed she'll emes. You don't necessarily need to discuss what you will be doing but more why it is important to do. As some posters pointed out chesed starts at home, but you also have a responsibility of chinuch. This is an invaluable opportunity to teach your daughter the importance of chesed and I don't think it should be waisted!
Hatzlacha rabbah!