Ds 15 yo wants to go to MO school

amother

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 12:45 pm

Dh and I are bt. We are yeshivish black hat in a oot community. Ds is in tenth grade. He had some bad experience in school with bad rabbis and other stuff going on at home. He wants to switch to a local MO school which is not excepted by us. There are some boys there who go out with girls and it is a very rich and not always even shomer Shabbos sometimes. We are struggling financially and probably have to push our limits to pay for the MO school. In his current school we barely pay anything. I don't like the bad influence even though he is already watching movies as are some of his school mates. He said likes the Mo school as they have clubs and extra curricular stuff. He said he will hate us for not switching his school. He said he doesn't like the yeshiva type high school and doesn't like his rebbe and rosh yeshiva. We talked to them but I guess it doesn't make a difference even though I know they are trying. Wwyd?

SplitPea

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 12:52 pm

How about being upfront with that son that you can't afford the MO school and ask him if he want to take a weekend job and a summer job to help pay tuition.

Make HIM invested in it (besides with a job he won't be out dating girls)

As far as the fact that its more modern than you guys? I would say be thankful he wants to be in a frum school and not public school. Let him come into his own and support him in every way you can. If you can't afford it explain that reason to him and have HIM help you come up with solutions. Maybe he will give up his cell phone? Sell his computer? Cut cable? There are many corners that he might be able to think about cutting to make up the difference. He is trying to make an adult choice treat him like an adult and see how he responds.

mummiedearest

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 12:55 pm

I think you need to consider his needs. he's being very honest with you. the fact is, yeshivish yeshivas are very tough for kids who need those extra outlets. you are in a good position here. you can talk to your ds about your requirements if he is to attend this school, including no dating. talk to him about the financial reality of it.

I don't know if this is an option for you, but could you enroll him in an online high school and have him pay for extracurricular activities in the area?

Tzippora

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 1:00 pm

you should be glad he's coming to you now, with a plan, with honesty about who he is and what he wants. Because it isn't the path you choose for yourselves it's very hard to see I'm sure, but it gives him a chance at a young age to find something that works for him and gives him the opportunities he feels he needs.

You won't gain anything by putting the mo school down. The practical issues should be raised and addressed but clearly this is the direction that works for him based on specific articulated criteria. good for him for having the maturity to know what he wants.

amother

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 1:04 pm

Op here
Ds is very smart but I know he is not so strong and go sometimes by peer pressure. I don't think he can make money that will make a difference. I wanted him to be in yeshiva and get this experience. He feels that he wastes his life learning gemarah most if the day. I was hoping he would get inspired. He is enrolled in an online course in Math and English. He said he hates his school. He can't compete with the rich MO crowd in that school. I'm not sure what to do. Btw we don't have tv at home.

amother

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 1:07 pm

Tzippora wrote:

Op here
I feel some bad rebbis turned him away from yidishkite.

mummiedearest

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 1:13 pm

amother wrote:

if he has that feeling towards learning gemara and you force him to continue in that school, you will be the one responsible if he turns away from yiddishkeit. he's not asking to go to catholic school, he's asking that you respect his needs and his personal hashkafa. his rebbis did not turn him away from yiddishkeit, they turned him away from yeshivish hashkafa (possibly. he could have felt this way even with 100% fantastic rebbis). keep this conversation open with him, and if you really can't pay for the mo school, look into homeschooling options.

lavendar

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 1:14 pm

Putting the financial issue aside I'd say put him there . He prob end up with a good education instead of doing nothing with his life bec of his tenth grade rebbi like so many other kids I know , that are now in their 20s and play video game all dayhe may not grow up to be a "black hat " but hell prob go to college and make a life for himself and be a healthier person . Chances are if he is already down that path he's gonna become friends with the bummed out kids in yeshiva which is way worse then mo kids in my opinion . And as for girls why do u think that by keeping in a yeshivish crowd he won't talk to girls ? He prob will behind ur back with all his friends and rebellious black hats tend to get more carried away then the mo crowed . I am speaking from experience I went to yeshivish bais yakov hated it . Kids I was able to relate to were Really bad !!!! I asked my parent to go to a more modern school they were worried , yes I started going to movies and had a boy friend . Today he is my husband and he's in kollel ( which my parents arent happy about ) I think I'm a much healthier person bec of that switch ! As for the money be honest with him either let him help out or pick another school etc.

SplitPea

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 1:25 pm

You say he can't make money to Make a Difference have him get a REAL job. (Im sorry Most frum kids really dont understand real work. Have work at a restaurant after school and on Sunday, or stocking at a grocery store, cashier, etc when I was in HS I worked 15 hours a week during the school year and 38 hours a week during the summer. Even at $5/hr (after taxes) that's 300/month during the school year and almost 800/month for the summer! He can't wipe tables? Pump gas? Ring groceries? Bag? Etc? If it means a lot to him he will find a way.

If his grades suffer he has to go back to yeshivish school.
If he can't make the money.... Back to yeshivish school.
See how much he REALLY wants it

mummiedearest

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 1:27 pm

SplitPea wrote:

liking this post was not enough. op, take this advice.

amother

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 1:34 pm

I feel like I have to comment on this thread because we are currently going through the same thing withour son who is the same age as yours. Hates yeshiva, feels hes wasting all his life on gemara that he doesnt really understand, fed up of rebbeim saying things like secular literature is bad, zionism is bad,etc. The MO scchool that he wants to go ot in our OOT community sounds less frum than your MO option. Only about 10% of school is shomer shabbos, only maybe two boys in each grade look likehim ie yarmulke, tzitzis, payos even out of school. this is very hard for us, I feel like it is the end of my dream fo r what I hopedd that his life would look like.

the reason I am writing this on your thread is because I want to give you a message: SPEAK TO A RAV not even necessarily your own Rav if he doesnt understand teenagers and wehre your son is coming from. The Rav we spoke to is known as an expert on edcuation, he was in chinuch before he became a community Rav and he was able to give excellent guidance to us. In his opinion, if we keep our son where he is now, he will likely become very rebeillious before the end of his high school career, he advised moving him out. He did say that whether or not ot movehim to the MO school depended on the childs personality, how strong is he in his yiddishkeit and more. Right now, we have just about come to a decision to move him... itishard but I feel with folllowing daas torah it has made iteasier. by the way, we are not BT, we are FFB if that makes a difference.

Please speak to a RAv, have only hatzlacha with your child.

amother

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 1:35 pm

I would seriously consider his needs. If you see the path he is on only deteriorating and leading him against rebbe's gemara, the love of torah way of life, save this from happening by taking him seriously and doing something differently.

Let him work at a real job and contribute what we adults see as hardly anything but to a kid is substantial. Let him know that the people in the other school have means that you don't and he should be aware of how that might make him feel in certain instances. Let him go in the understanding that just because the kids in that school come with different ideas doesn't mean that you will think he should date before he is looking for a wife.

Ruchel

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 1:41 pm

Not paskening just reporting various talks I heard and ideas I have:

R Ron Chaya (charedi, Swiss) said even public school is better than ending up turned off yiddishkeit
Wanting MO because it fits him better is very different than out of spite or provocation
Let him know how it feels to be the "poor" among richies.
If you absolutely cannot pay, tell him and let him see if he prefers going without or contributing
What of a compromise? you understand hating school is awful, so what of a liter yeshivish dorm, somewhere?

He may well drop it like a hot potatoe quickly (or not).

sequoia

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 1:44 pm

I understand you, OP. Aside from hashkafa, there are a host of problems from being in a school where most of your classmates come from wealthier families.

Discuss options with him. Speak frankly and respectfully. Voice your concerns and explain the financial reality.

But first, sit down with your dh and have a talk about what your position is. Because "we want you to be just like us, yay learning gemara all day, people who wear knitted kippot are not frum" is a terrible position, and if there is even a smidgeon of that, your son will pick up on that.

Barbara

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 1:47 pm

SplitPea wrote:

Really?

DS is in a MO high school. The hours are 8 am to 5:15 pm (except Friday, of course). With extra-curriculars, most kids would not get home until at least 7 to 7:30 pm. Including studying, you can anticipate anywhere from 2 to 6 hours of homework a night. We know plenty of kids in advance classes who are up until 1 or 2 a.m. doing homework. It would be very difficult for anyone to work 15 hours a week under those conditions.

OP, here's my suggestion. Go into it with an open mind. Tell your DS you will consider it, which does not mean yes or no. Make an appointment to talk to the administration. Ask all your questions. Gather information. Ask about the curriculum. Ask about expectations. Ask about extras. Be open about the fact that you feel the school serves a student population that is wealthier than you, and ask if there is bullying of students who are less well off. Ask about financial aid. If you are comfortable, ask about having your son spend a day at the school. He would talk to administrators, and spend a day shadowing another boy.

Be open with your son about expectations. I have no problems with my son dating (he doesn't date, FTR), but if you do, make it clear to your son that he will not be permitted to. Think of other things -- parties, going out in a mixed group motzei Shabbat. Make your expectations clear. At the same time, tell him that there will be other things that come up, and they will be addressed. He will need to be prepared to do what you say, but he should understand that, as you did here, you will always consider his needs and point of view.

hop613

Wed, Jan 15 2014, 2:46 pm

It's a tricky situation. Obviously your son is struggling in his current school. No one can tell the future. Have you thought about what might happen if he continues to have negative experiences in his current school? He could be turned off from yiddishkeit for a long time.

I am sure you have thought about everything that could go wrong if he goes to a more modern school. I don't think it is realistic to send him to a modern school and expect that he won't be doing the things that they do - like watching movies, talking to girls, etc. But if he has a positive experience in this school it could change his life.

It's scary. There is no way to know how being in either place will impact him. But don't let your fears of him being among modern peers force him to stay in a place that could do worse damage. I have seen this a few times - yeshivish families refuse to let their kids go to modern schools where they are begging to go. The kids end up dropping out of school with nothing to do with their lives, and getting into a lot worse trouble than they would have gotten into going to a modern school.

I'm not saying this is every kid. There is no guarentee he won't be miserable at the new school also. Only you know your kid and how good or bad his current school really is for him.