Leaving baby alone in car in Israel

Sanguine

Tue, Jan 28 2014, 8:04 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

There's nothing like crying and davening in pain to Hashem for 20 years to make you exquisitely aware that your child is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

FF - B"H I was blessed with no infertility problems - But that doesn't make my children any less precious to me than yours is to you. The only thing it changes is our outlook on parenting. I have more years of experience as a parent (I'm a mother 25 years already) so I'm calmer. If I thought something was a danger to one of my children I wouldn't say - "Let him go, we have more. That one is replaceable".

tamid - every situation is different. You've heard everyone. Do what you think is right for your situation

trying1

Tue, Jan 28 2014, 8:23 am

Quote:

B"H I was blessed with no infertility problems - But that doesn't make my children any less precious to me than yours is to you. The only thing it changes is our outlook on parenting. I have more years of experience as a parent (I'm a mother 25 years already) so I'm calmer

Sorry - but as someone who has suffered from infertility for a long time, your answer is unfair. Of course all children are precious - really really precious, but some people appreciate them and are less willing to take risks than others. This doesn't mean that I am not a calm parent - it just means that I am less willing to take risks. Therefore, I do not allow my children to play outside unaccompanied - or I will not leave them in a car even 'for 2 minutes' because the preciousness is always in front of me. Dare I say, unlike lots of my friends and acquaintances who are much more willing to take risks as they do not constantly recognize their preciousness.

Sanguine

Tue, Jan 28 2014, 8:47 am

I don't think it has to do with preciousness. It has to do with experience and everything being new. With my first pregnancy I called the OB all worried cause I had vomited right after taking my prenatal vitamin - Do I take another one? I don't want to overdose but what happens if I threw up today's vitamin? I panicked when someone gave my 10 month baby cheerios...

Also has to do with not being able to give the individual attention to one kid when there are a few more. Can't spend an hour bathing the baby when you have to bathe a few others too.

That's why I said to tamid to see what her situation is. In theory your baby should never leave your arms, but if you can look at your situation and there's no danger, you don't have to listen to other people whose situation is different

chocolate chips

Tue, Jan 28 2014, 12:11 pm

Frantic Frummie running into the grocery is never ever two minutes.
Never.
It may be 5 minutes but then it would be would you leave your kid for 5 minutes to run into the grocery? No way!!
Yes dropping off at maon/playgroup could take longer than 2 minutes exactly but that would only be if the mother stopped to chat and assuming she knows her baby is in the car then no she wouldn't do that.

Honestly I don't know what I would do in this situation but since I cannot see my car and I have to park, go up to the house, knock on the door etc and that is all assuming you get parking right outside the door...no I probably wouldn't but then again I do not live in a small yishuv in Israel I live in Brooklyn NY which is a crazy place all together!

Two options would be either take the baby out, the toddler out and yes, it is painfully annoying but that is life. OR assuming you are heading to work and therefore the baby is also going to a babysitter, drop the baby off first and then take your toddler to maon.

The only time I ever leave my son (2.5) in the car alone (when I have a car) is when I park in my driveway and run to get something from the house. The doors are all open and I can see/hear all the time. Never longer than 1-2 minutes. Even then I fly back to the car so fast my heart is pounding.
It really doesn't help my nerves that ds gets excited when I close the car door and leave him for a few seconds ("bye mummy I stay here!!") :S

chocolate chips

Tue, Jan 28 2014, 12:14 pm

trying1 wrote:

Quote:

Why is her answer anymore unfair/offensive than yours?
I actually take offense when people say that women who didn't go through iF (b"H) do not appreciate or understand how precious their kids are. Or that they are calmer or more relaxed and easy going.
I understand you had to wait a long time for your child but aside from a miracle does that make your child any less valuable than mine? No I also suffered to have my child, 9 hard pregnancy months followed by a traumatic labor and delivery and 8 weeks of a hard pp followed by nearly 2 years of possible ppd. You bet I love my child. YOu bet he is precious and you bet I worry about him every second of every minute of every day. Awake or asleep.
Am I calm? yes sometimes I let things go because I know that it is not worth it to fight or get stressed over but my son is still the most precious thing in my life. And always will be.
I hope that every parent can say this whether they had an easy preg/birth/pp period or a hard one. Infertility or not.

Barbara

Tue, Jan 28 2014, 12:17 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

saw, this would not work for maon. maon is a day care, probably at least 30 kids. they cant have the mitaplot going outside for other parents. the parents have to come inside. and I agree with grace, you can not always see your car. you may have to park down the block or even in the adjacent parking lot. Not a good idea and not doable for a maon.

And for whomever said to just take the car seat in with you, not everyone has those car seats that come out of the car. some are meant to be left in the car, so thats not always doable.

That being said, I personally would not leave a bby in the car, at all. You never know what could happen. Better safe than sorry, wear a wrap and put the baby in there for the few minutes that you have to go into the maon. Yes, its annoying but safer than not.

Actually, given the number of people with the same issue, it makes perfect sense to have someone meeting cars in front and taking the toddlers. Then come back for the next car. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I'd weigh the risk of leaving a baby in a locked, cool car within sight, to drop an older child off in bad weather. But if the car would be out of sight, no way. The older child takes a long time to walk because she wants to jump in puddles, or because she falls, or because she has a temper tantrum. The teacher needs to talk to you for a minute. Someone else has a question for you. Etc, etc. So the 3 minutes becomes 15.

For those who would compare it to leaving a child at home in a crib while you take a shower ... wrong. One is a private, presumably baby-proofed home. The other is a public place.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jan 28 2014, 12:24 pm

My sons school has designated staff at the carpool line to bring kids inside from their cars, just for this purpose. Parent can't always park and unload all the kids for every dropoff. Whoever is at the front of the line can wait for the staff member to return from the previous child. That said, I know it isn't commonly done at day cares, maybe because kids that age often need a parent to bring them in.

I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving a baby in the car. I don't think it's that far fetched to think that a mother might get distracted and forget the baby waiting outside. Yes, even a mother who loves her child, even one who went through IF (what a silly thing to argue about...).

Raisin

Tue, Jan 28 2014, 12:40 pm

one of the most heart rending stories I ever read was a couple who went through years of IF, and finally had a healthy baby. one sunny day, one of the parents was driving the car and forgot the kid was in the car. The baby died.

(ok, simply forgetting you have a kid in the car is different then deliberately leaving the kid in the car for 5 minutes. But, something like this can happen to anyone, even the most loving, careful parent on the planet)

amother

Tue, Jan 28 2014, 12:44 pm

once I did this- left my two year old in a car on a cold rainy day while I ran into the store. She had been crying all day and had JUST falled asleep and I was in the store for a very short time.

In the meantime, someone called the police and they reported me to CPS. I felt terrible, just awful about the whole thing.

Then, a few days later, I was driving on the highway and saw a guy speeding over 80 mph with his 5 year old in the front seat.

I realized that, although we were both wrong, my child was statistically MUCH safer but the social services would investigate me but not him. He'd just get a ticket. Unfair. The risk to a 2 year old child waiting in a car for a few minutes on a cold and rainy day is so small compared to the risk to that child of driving in a car, nevermind in the front seat and speeding.

saw50st8

Tue, Jan 28 2014, 12:45 pm

trying1 wrote:

Quote:

Infertility doesn't always make someone more careful (leaving aside the debate as to whether being overprotective is actually a negative or positive).

There is also usually a cost for doing things one way or another. This summer, I had a newborn, a 2 year old, a 3 year old and a 5 year old. I was picking up the younger 3 from camp every day. I had the option to bring the baby carseat with me or make sure the carseat was visible while I went to the door to get the kids. Knee jerk reaction is "bring the baby!" however, I felt that was less safe. My 5 and 3 year olds would listen, but my 2 year old was a runner. So if I was holding her hand AND the baby car seat, either I would have to put the baby car seat down on the sidewalk or struggle with her and the carseat. If I put the baby carseat down, there were plenty of other young children (age 2-5) that would potentially run over and attempt to (dangerously) play with the baby. So keeping the baby in the car (door open, in view the entire time) was the SAFER option.

I do not believe you appreciate your children more than I do. I won't buy that just because you suffered through IF and I did not.

marina

Tue, Jan 28 2014, 12:46 pm

trying1 wrote:

Quote:

This is just one step from saying people who have had IF love their kids more than those who never had fertility problems. Is that what you want to say? Think hard about your answer.

saw50st8

Tue, Jan 28 2014, 12:47 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

My baby is in daycare. I think its reasonable to ask the teacher to put on the kids coat and make sure their bag is ready so the parent can meet them at the door.

If there is no parking out front (even illegal) that makes it harder.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Jan 28 2014, 1:31 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

The OP said maon. Here in Israel, maon is for kids under 3 years old, so yes, they can have the children ready, but the parents still have to come in for them.
How many kids are in your child's day care center?