Are you makpid on yoshon?

sarahd

Tue, May 01 2007, 4:51 pm

shalhevet wrote:

Meaning, that whenever an issue comes up here where there is a machlokes haposkim some Lubavitchers basically shout that if you don't do what they do then it is unforgiveable FOR EVERYONE, not just for Lubavitchers. It's irrelevant to this particular question the issue of CY and/or yashan.

Thanks, shalhevet, for clarifying. The question was, why do posters here think they should be respected when they say that their Rebbe said they are not makpid on a certain hanhaga, yet feel that they can attack other posters who say the very same thing about their Rav vis-a-vis a certain hanhaga?

sarahd

Tue, May 01 2007, 4:54 pm

Motek wrote:

by the way #2 for sarahd, maybe you would edit to "some Lubavitchers" so nobody thinks you are casting aspersions on all ... Wink

Grammar check: "Lubavitch posters" doesn't imply "every single Lubavitcher who posts on this board". Rather, it implies that the posters doing the attacking of non-CY eaters are Lubavitch as opposed to Satmar posters, litvish posters and any other denomination of poster. Which, if anyone will bother to check the threads relating to the issue, is the fact of the matter.

Crayon210

Tue, May 01 2007, 6:20 pm

sarahd wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

I think the point is that when a Lubavitcher takes issue with another rav's psak on Cholov Yisroel (for example), it's not "LubavitchPoster" taking issue with the rav's psak, it's "LubavitchPoster" quoting the Rebbe (not her own personal opinion) taking issue with the rav's psak.

If someone cares to bring a posek who says we have to keep yoshon, great. That's an interesting debate.

mimsy7420

Thu, May 03 2007, 11:40 am

EstiS wrote:

I find the way you are speaking about the Rebbe most disrespectful.
the Rebbe is not just "someone"
we also don't use the terminology "niftar" on a tzaddik no matter which chassidus or non chassidus he is leader of.

So what's the proper terminology??

shalhevet

Thu, May 03 2007, 12:03 pm

I have only ahava for every Jew, but that does not mean that I shouldn't express my opinions. There is nothing wrong in raising points and discussing opinions, even if you don't like them.

Sarahd asked a very interesting question on your post which you have yet to answer. And, yes, we often go onto tangential issues on this forum. So you could have answered the issue in a polite way. Does that mean that you don't have an answer that your only way of responding is to insult me and behave in a manner far removed from ahavas Yisroel? There are plenty of Lub posters here who I have argued with on various issues in a dignified way even if we disagree (take TzenaRena as one example I can think of). We can respect each other and argue out points while still not agreeing with each other.

shalhevet

Thu, May 03 2007, 2:25 pm

Crayon, go use your gemora kop for something more useful. Very Happy

I think I explained myself. I davka took Lubavitch things because that was my point, that Lubavitchers also do things that were not done in Europe.

Would you feel better if I said that CY being more important than yoshon can't be proved by saying we do things like in Europe because today girls go to BY, people phone their shailas to a rav and Sifrei Torah are checked by a computer?

I also find it very upsetting that I am basically called a liar, that people decide what I thought of when I was writing something and then won't accept my (true) explanation. I think it is clear that I don't mind other imamothers knowing my opinions, even if I think people will disagree, and I also have no reason to "deny" my "true intent".

Would it help to repeat that when I first answered this thread I had no idea that yoshon was a Lub/ Litvish issue. Since I only became Chareidi in EY and everyone keeps yoshon (it is midoraisa in EY according to all opinions) I didn't even know much about how it is kept in Chutz La'aretz.

So if it was going to be so controversial, why did Motek start the topic? Maybe we can all speculate on her motives. Tongue Out

amother

Thu, May 03 2007, 2:33 pm

Hi. My name is Rabbi Akiva.
I would like to tell you that I am turning over in my grave, along with my 24,000 talmidim as I hear about this thread. Either learn a lesson from what happened to them as a result of their lack of derech eretz for each other or stop observing the external customs of sefira all together. Good day.

Crayon210

Thu, May 03 2007, 2:34 pm

shalhevet wrote:

Crayon, go use your gemora kop for something more useful. Very Happy

Quote:

I think I explained myself. I davka took Lubavitch things because that was my point, that Lubavitchers also do things that were not done in Europe.

And for you to choose things as Chabad examples that you disagree with is not nice. The implication, loud and clear, is that Lubavitchers have inappropriately innovated.

Quote:

Would you feel better if I said that CY being more important than yoshon can't be proved by saying we do things like in Europe because today girls go to BY, people phone their shailas to a rav and Sifrei Torah are checked by a computer?

Sure.

Quote:

Would it help to repeat that when I first answered this thread I had no idea that yoshon was a Lub/ Litvish issue. Since I only became Chareidi in EY and everyone keeps yoshon (it is midoraisa in EY according to all opinions) I didn't even know much about how it is kept in Chutz La'aretz.

It helps for the first part of the thread. Once you were aware of how Lubavitchers practice, that doesn't really work. Confused

Last edited by Crayon210 on Sun, May 06 2007, 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

Motek

Thu, May 03 2007, 2:35 pm

shalhevet wrote:

I davka took Lubavitch things because that was my point, that Lubavitchers also do things that were not done in Europe.

So that was clarified, for those of you who were wondering (as some of you told me you were), whether she was vilifying Lubavitch or not. Lubavitch things ... obscene is a good word crayon.

Motek

Sun, May 06 2007, 10:23 pm

By the way, the Alter Rebbe in his Shulchan Aruch, after giving reasons for why nobody keeps this din, concludes that a baal nefesh should be machmir. And probably many Chabad Chassidim did so. But this was not the general practice but an individual decision. Various rabbonim have noted that you end up with problems with worms.

On Acharon shel Pesach 5740, the Rebbe spoke about this topic in a sicha and said, "In Brooklyn, in N.Y., and even in Williamsburg, you don't find anyone who is particular about chodosh. However, if you find one Jew who does, may he be blessed, but I have not found such a Yid.

TzenaRena

Mon, May 07 2007, 10:03 am

I was going to say, that the mashgiach I spoke to told me that the Yoshon flour has to be sifted with a very fine sifter. I have the Pelematic which takes forever to go through one bag of flour. Sifting by hand would be that much more tedious.

My Pelematic was a gift from one of our Israeli guests who knew that I wanted it. It's pretty standard there, but here I couldn't find it . The very first time I used it on the heimishe, Yoshon high gluten flour that I use(d), I found a segment of an insect Pale

When I checked the bag again, I saw that it's bleached flour too! So I'm not using that brand anymore. Shaking

OTOH, for the other flour (not yoshon) it isn't mandatory to sift, so I can use my other sifter which is so much easier. Smile

.

Since Yoshon is not a problem (for us), and bugs are, I started buying the other flour. I went back to a different brand of high gluten recently, also Yoshon, because we like soft fluffy challah, but it's definitely more work for me.