People who want free advice

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Working Women

1 2 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother

Mon, May 12 2014, 10:22 pm

I work in an executive position, and I also do software development for private clients. In the past I have also taught various computer subjects at a local school. I have also helped people with business or school reports who wanted their documents and charts formatted professionally and were happy to pay my fees.

Shprintzie was one of my students. Shprintzie’s father happens to be a friend of my husband. I did some consulting for him a few years ago, for which he paid me. However, for some reason he considers me his free consultant for very basic questions that could probably be answered by his ninth grader. (Also, he does have access to Google, which, I have often told him, can answer almost anything.)

It’s not that I never do people favors. If a neighbor or relative needs help formatting a document, they are welcome to email it to me, and sometimes even to come to my home office for help. I’ve even printed labels for the Mishloach Monos of neighbors, although I felt like it was a bit of an imposition. (At this point my children, if they are home, can do most of these things). And of course, my former students have occasionally called for help with their chasunah lists, which I graciously tried to provide.

My husband encourages me to help Shprintzie’s father, who’s a nice fellow etc. But this evening something got my goat. A random stranger called up and said that Shprintzie’s father recommended that he call me for help printing his labels.

First of all, labels are tricky; if you are not right there with the printer it’s almost impossible to diagnose the problem (unless you’re a tech in India who has the ability to go into the customer’s computer and see what’s happening, and usually not even then. But of course, many of the people who want my help won’t use the Internet, so they have to bring me the actual computer.)

Second, most people have later version of Word, while I have thus far refused to waste my time learning the latest gimmick that Microsoft has devised in an attempt to make me spend more of my hard-earned money.

Third, most likely if he’d just wait for his ninth grade daughter to come home, she could solve the problem.

Am I being unreasonable to feel put upon? I told him, “Well, actually, I consult for around $150 per hour, and anyhow I have clients waiting for some work this evening, so I don’t think I can really help you right now.” He sounded a bit hurt and said, “Oh, if you’re not able to help me….” and I said, “I’m sorry, I have a client calling right now to discuss some work.” And I hung up.

It's not even that I mind doing a favor for free. I think it's more that these are really ninth grade questions, and I am not a ninth grade teacher. Is that very bad?

I hope, if you think I am on an ego trip, you will say so gently.

seeker

Mon, May 12 2014, 10:32 pm

I think it's a bit judgmental for you to take offense at being asked what you call "ninth grade questions." To the person asking, it is simply information that they don't know that you probably do know. An insult to their intelligence, not yours.

However, it is not out of line to decline answering these as personal favors. I see no problem at all telling Mr. Shprintzie and friends "I'll be happy to help you with your label-printing issue. I have a session available Thursday morning, does that work for you? My fee is $150 per hour of computer support" (though you could consider setting different rates for more basic help, lol.) Alternatively, "I'm really sorry, but I don't have any openings for new consulting sessions at this time. Perhaps Shprintzie can help you." And then, if they try to keep you on the phone and/or milk more help out of you, you'd be justified in saying "Sorry, I have a call coming in on the other line, goodbye."

I do think that if you said it the way you typed it, you could probably use some improvement there. Your personal reasoning behind your business choices and your feelings about being asked are really not their problem, they don't deserve to be disrespected just because they've asked a question that you feel is beneath your dignity. You might need to set some better boundaries with Mr. Shprintzie. His friend certainly didn't do anything wrong here.

monseychick

Mon, May 12 2014, 10:47 pm

My husb feels exactly the same way as you do. OTOH, different ppl have different strengths and abilities. Computers can be very overwhelming for the uninitiated. I'm sure you ask 9th grade questions about subjects you are unfamiliar with. We cant know everything

OTOH, dont let ppl use you. Maybe not 150 an hour. But say, you charge 20 an hour for very simple stuff. You will be amazed at how even at that rate, most of the users will suddenly stop bothering you.

amother

Mon, May 12 2014, 10:51 pm

Quote:

they don't deserve to be disrespected just because they've asked a question that you feel is beneath your dignity. You might need to set some better boundaries with Mr. Shprintzie. His friend certainly didn't do anything wrong here.

I hear you. I think I was hoping my message to the friend would get back to Mr. Shprintzie, not so much for his occasional questions but because I am afraid he will start sending me lots of non-paying customers.

But really, would you call a rando

Or an interior decorator who charges for their work but you are just wondering which of two shades of pink paint will go better with your daughter's linens (which, of course, she can't see over the phone)?

Or would you expect a friend to refer you to his friend, who is a lawyer, to tell you where to pay a parking ticket?

Of course, I must be 'dan lekaf zechus' that Mr. Shprintzie never told his friend that I am a consultant who is paid for computer support, so I guess it's not the friend's fault. But, again, I am hoping this gets back to Mr. Shprintzie so he never does this again!

Do you think I should call the friend and apologize?

amother

Mon, May 12 2014, 10:53 pm

I've also got another pet peeve, that of invasion of privacy. Just because you and I are both mitzvah observant Jews doesn't give you the right to make demands on me (such as calling me during dinner to donate to your cause, or asking me to join your Tehillim group and have 'tainos' if I don't, banging on my door to solicit funds when I am busy and don't answer right away.)

I find this all too common in my community, and perhaps I overreact.

seeker

Mon, May 12 2014, 11:01 pm

Two things probably happened: Mr. Shprintzie named you as a person who helps him with these things, neglecting to mention that it is your business, not your hobby. THEN his buddy ALSO committed a minor social faux pas by calling a pretty random person with his technical question.

On your part, if it happens again you clarify - politely, but clearly: Yes, I know computers; it is my business and you can request computer help as a professional client. (This is a stranger, not your sister in law!) but for now, I'd call this previous conversation a bygone. I would not count on Mr. Shprintzie getting the hint through his friend; the friend will either never report back, or will report back that you were unhelpful and chilly, and what does that do for your personal image?

amother

Mon, May 12 2014, 11:15 pm

Quote:

But say, you charge 20 an hour for very simple stuff.

Certainly not! It would be a waste of my professional abilities!

I look at it this way. If a colleague were to call and ask if I knew how to solve a certain programming issue, I'd be happy to think about it. In fact, many of us participate in fora where both pros and newbies can ask questions and get answers. I guess that is very different because we each look at the fora and participate on our schedules.

I've got a couple of colleagues who have been very helpful to me when I've asked if they knew about various topics. But, when one spent a couple of hours helping me figure out how to implement a certain feature for a client, I asked him what he charges because, since I was being paid by the client, I wanted to reimburse him for his time.

amother

Mon, May 12 2014, 11:19 pm

Heh heh. You know what this is bringing up in my memory? Some years ago, dear young vibel called me for advice on what spectacular toy to buy her son for his upsherin.

We don't make upsherins. Also, I had rather older children at the time and my three year old, if I had one then, played with whatever mismatched odds and ends had survived the vigorous use by his older siblings. Unless, of course, we needed a chart to help motivate him quash some bad middah, in which case we might dangle some spectacular toy as a prize.

I just felt like I was so 'past' the question. And also, since my relationship with this young woman was of a very casual, 'hi'-when-we-meet-at-the-grocery, I could not fathom what made her feel compelled to solicit my sage counsel.

(I am anon in case that young woman is here....I hope so, perhaps she will enlighten us!)

freidasima

Tue, May 13 2014, 12:14 am

Set your boundaries, nicely, with a smile, and if it doesn't work just make yourself too busy to answer and help.
This happens to us all the time, that is to both my husband and me in our different fields. He gets asked to give a lecture (not a torah shiur which he always does for free) by someone who heard from someone...in eckvelt and unless it is a close friend, he turns them down with a gentle excuse and gives them the name of someone else. But as he said, would someone come up to one of our lawyers in shul and ask them to give 90 minutes of their time gratis to answer questions? Not a one off the cuff question which is no problem but something that takes more then 30 second to answer? Of course not. So why do professionals get slammed for wanting to get paid for their time.

You can not imagine how often I am stopped and asked "stam questions", not for a recommendation for a fellow professional in my field which I am always happy to give if I can, but for serious long conversations about how to solve a problem. There are times I have the time and strength to do it and I will, but when it seems that it is someone I don't know, have no connection to, that "someone said you could" type of stuff...well there I have to often draw a line, and so the OP should as well.

Again, always politely, gently, with a smile, but draw that line, you can't help now, sorry. And then have the names and numbers of other people in your field and...pass them on. Because half the time? That's how those people got to you in the first place...from your colleagues who got sick of freeloaders! Took me a long time to learn this but...I finally did.

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 3:11 am

FS You can tell your husband people constantly come up to attorneys to get advice gratis. That is how I met my late husband. He would chew my ear off for free advice. OTOH maybe it was his way of meeting me. Friends, neighbors, friends of neighbors, Rabbis, friends of Rabbis think nothing of trying to get free advice. Being asked at simchas or while in the park with kids is standard.

OP, the best way to handle this is to set boundaries and charge.

mommyshani

Tue, May 13 2014, 5:15 am

You did the right thing. I occasionally get asked for professional advice in my field, and when the question is a two second answer, I have no trouble providing an answer. But when things start getting complicated, and the person asking just wants to avoid paying a professional, I will tell them straight out, this is a complicated question - make an appointment and we can talk. Sometimes you just can't do Chesed for people - otherwise they will run right over you.

Raisin

Tue, May 13 2014, 5:27 am

Just say politely, you are sorry, you really have no time right now.

greenfire

Tue, May 13 2014, 6:05 am

I find it rude when you do a non-payed favour for someone & he sends you more people to feed off your kindness ...

it is your job/parnassa ~ you can't be giving it away for free ...

but try to explain it nicely to people ... hanging up isn't really business friendly

I would go ahead & do 2 things - change your mode to 'I charge $150 an hour would you like to hire me?'

& tell mr sprintzel kindly not to forward your name to people who want free service

ectomorph

Tue, May 13 2014, 7:15 am

I think you did the right thing. Even with chessed, you need to set boundaries so you can be there for the people who need your skills.

groovy1224

Tue, May 13 2014, 7:26 am

amother wrote:

It's not even that I mind doing a favor for free. I think it's more that these are really ninth grade questions, and I am not a ninth grade teacher. Is that very bad?

I think it's a little odd that what bothers you the most is how complicated the question was- so if he called you with a more professional question, you'd be more okay with it? I would think the other way around..he probably thought it was okay because it was such an 'easy' question. Not that there was anything wrong with turning him down.

I also think in the future, perhaps tell Mr. Shprintzie not to give your number out- tell him you're happy to help him out off the books because he's a friend, but you really don't usually extend that courtesy to everyone so to please keep your personal number private.

Ruchel

Tue, May 13 2014, 7:32 am

People think I can translate/correct their texts in English, just like that, "for tomorrow", "graciously" (= unpaid). I beshitta refuse.

They think my husband can teach them/their child computers, or fix their comp, for "a friend price" (= a rip off) and he doesn't do either unless it's a very close person (my parents, for ex, but they insist on paying!!).

Ruchel

Tue, May 13 2014, 7:33 am

More complicated is when ppl ask dh long Torah questions, because it's a mitsva but also his parnassa (he teaches children, for money, I think in English they call it "a rebbi") and before being a parnassa he did it as a chessed/kiruv...

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 7:38 am

People try to squeeze free tax advice out of my CPA husband. He warmly tells them he'd love to help, please make an appointment to come in. This is his parnassah and there is no reason he should give it out for free.

Fox

Tue, May 13 2014, 8:11 am

OP, are you me? Did I have some kind of blackout where I don't remember posting? Maybe the two of us plus OOTBubby could get a group discount on therapy from FS for PTCMS (Post-Traumatic Computer Maven Syndrome).

Like FS, I try to be helpful when I can, but it's not always possible for me -- or even in the best long-term interest of the person in need of help. The advice I give while standing in the produce section of the supermarket is not necessarily my best work.

However, let me try to explain why extremely basic questions are more annoying than others:

Far too many people seem to think that learning software is either beneath them or is a waste of their time. I've even had people tell me, "Well, if I can't just click around and figure it out, it must not be a very good program." Then they ask me how to do something "complicated" (which is defined as "something they don't know how to do."

There are also the people who giggle and say, "Oh, I'm not very good with computers." Um, a good excuse in, maybe, 1990.

If someone asks me how to create labels in MS Word, it means he/she hasn't done even the most rudimentary homework -- or even clicked the "question" icon! Laziness on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

I find myself responding completely differently when someone asks something like, "I created my labels but I'd like to center them vertically, and I haven't been able to figure out how to do that." That shows me that they've defined the problem and spent at least a little time on the project. It shows that they respect my time as much as they respect their own.

summer0808

Tue, May 13 2014, 8:29 am

And I get this all the time asking for tax advice. Then they want to know why I charged them? Huh? When you are a few thousand dollar client, then the advice is thrown in as part of the package deal. But when I do a basic tax return and then chew my ear off 20 minutes at a time 3x a year they want to know why I charge extra? The best is when they come to pick up their very basic return. Check the price, pay and then launch into a 1/2 hour schmooze about next year, sort of expecting now my free advice. ITS NOT INCLUDED!

OP you are correct and if you wouldn't have been so annoyed you might have said it more diplomatically. OK so you'll prepare a better script for next time. It's not like you're looking for this work and it's an inconvenient time. You don't want to do this work at all!

And ladies, us professionals, have a set hourly price. No matter if it is basic or complicated. If it's not worth 150/hour to you, then like she said, call any 9th grader who learned basic computer skills!

Page 1 of 2

1 2 Next