Would it be unethical/dishonest...

amother

Wed, May 14 2014, 12:26 pm

I recently interviewed for a part-time internship position in a small, frum accounting firm. I went into the interview thinking this would be a short-term position, however, as the interview progressed it became apparent to me that the accountant's goal was to hire someone who would want to continue as a full-time Junior Accountant. I was told that if I were to accept this job, I would be required to work overtime during tax season (right up to Erev Pesach). I was asked how old my children are, etc., and I got the impression they are willing to hire me on the presumption that since my youngest is already 10, I am done with having any more children.

However, I am planning on trying to become pregnant within the next year, and I would not be available to work overtime during tax season if have a baby. I would even have to reevaluate at that point in time whether I would be willing to work F/T.

I don't know if I should accept the position, and worry about the future when it comes. Or do you think it would be unethical/dishonest to accept this position?

Thanks for your opinions and advice.

5*Mom

Wed, May 14 2014, 12:35 pm

Um, I haven't lived in the US in many years, granted, but isn't it illegal for them to ask you personal questions like that and base a job offer on your answers? Your personal family plans are just that: personal. You are not the unethical one here.

causemommysaid

Wed, May 14 2014, 12:40 pm

ug I hate when people think that because they are frum they can disregard the interview laws.

you are under NO obligation to tell them anything and they are not allowed to ask.

legally you dont even have to give them 2 weeks notice if you decide to leave but the professional accepted thing to do is give 2 weeks notice. that is it.

take the job and decide later if you plan to stay. you can quit whenever you want.

amother

Wed, May 14 2014, 12:53 pm

I hired a bubbie whose youngest was a few years old, no guarantee but I figured she would certainly be more stable (as in out less) than a youngster. And she is very conscientious, and does not have issues with vacation or snow days, because she has older kids who can babysit, unlike young vibelach who often need to take off on those days (and I'm a very nice and understanding boss...). But sure 'nough, she recently showed up in maternity. But those are the breaks!

OP, you do what works for you. Your are entitled to re-evaluate based on what works for you. However, if they are specifying overtime as part of the job, and you can not to commit to that at this time, it would be wrong to take the job. If you are, as of now, willing to work overtime, but things change, that is totally your own business - but, be prepared for them to decide to hire someone else.

morah

Wed, May 14 2014, 12:57 pm

A. Totally illegal of them to ask questions about your kids. If they had asked the wrong person, they could get destroyed by a lawsuit.

B. You have no obligation to let anyone in on your reproductive plans. You cannot be expected to make such cheshbonos. You can pass on this opportunity only to find it takes you a year or more to get pregnant; you can plan around it only to have a preemie. Heck, for all you know, you could be pregnant right now and not know it yet. Take the job (if that's what you want), and see what happens. If it's really important, wait till after July to start trying (although again, not a guarantee).

HT217

Wed, May 14 2014, 1:14 pm

Your personal life is none of their business. As long as you are a good employee, what you do outside of your time at work is private! Nothing is certain, and your family plans should definitely not be part of the interview.

SRS

Wed, May 14 2014, 5:53 pm

This country has laws, but I do think you should put yourself in you employer's shoes and think if it is in his or her's best interest to take you on. I have passed on pursuing jobs because with certain types of work, leaving puts the business at financial risk. Employers want some return on their investment and it can take a while for for a new employee with billable hours to be profitable. Would you hire you?

And on the personal side, if you quit, will your career be hurt in the long run? My husband was asked for a 3 year commitment at his job and those who break that commitment will lock themselves out of future opportunity.

justforfun87

Wed, May 14 2014, 8:09 pm

You are way overthinking this. You are not even pregnant! I also planned on having a baby around April time and had a second term miscarriage. I planned on not waiting a year to concieve my son, didn't happen. Point is, live in the NOW and take the job!

shirachadasha

Wed, May 14 2014, 8:25 pm

Anyone who hires a woman who hasn't reached menopause takes the risk of having an employee who will be on maternity leave. (And if they ask about menopausal status in the interview it's time to look elsewhere).

In my opinion, there is a difference between knowing you will not be available during tax season and thinking you may not be available during tax season.

amother

Wed, May 14 2014, 9:44 pm

justforfun87 wrote:

I don't want to consider the future right now, as I'm very much aware there is no guarantee I will become pregnant. However, the accountant specified at the interview that he is seeking to hire an intern who will be interested in staying on in the firm as a Junior Accountant after the internship period is over. He specifically asked me if I will be available to work overtime during tax season, and I answered in the affirmative. This is the reason why I would feel I am being dishonest if I accepted the position.

Dolly Welsh

Wed, May 14 2014, 9:53 pm

You might get busy with both.

Take the job and try to conceive now not later, right now.

If you don't conceive, you have the job.

If you do conceive, he hasn't put more than a few months into you. And you will feel physically strong enough, probably, in the early part of the pregnancy, to train the next person, so there is not much damage done at all.

I respect your reticence and your honesty.

LisaS

Thu, May 15 2014, 4:43 am

When you went to the interview, were you just seeking a temporary job for a few months? What were your intentions? If you really only want a temporary job then you should be up front about that. They are looking for someone who wants to continue long term. This has nothing to do with a possible maternity leave. If you do want to stay with them long term, then taking a 3 month maternity leave is just a normal part of a long term employment.

amother

Thu, May 15 2014, 4:24 pm

I am going to be the voice of descent here.
I was a solo practitioner who hired and trained a woman to replace me in an extremely specialized field. She had no education but she was eager and told me she wanted the knowledge. I was pregnant with multiples at the time I hired her. A few months later I had forced full bedrest. She informed me at that time she was pregnant with multiples via IVF herself. I gave her a mazol Tov and inside I was fumming. She not only jammed me up, she jammed up every client I took on based on the fact I thought I could count on her for a smooth transition. Sometimes it is better to do the correct thing rather than the legal if you have any regard for clients.

amother

Thu, May 15 2014, 4:35 pm

I am a sole practitioner with a heavy enough clientele, worked in the hospital the day after a c section. If I had taken on someone and they could not deliver, I would have to restrain myself from letting the world know.

amother

Thu, May 15 2014, 7:24 pm

amother wrote:

I can understand why you would be disappointed at the situation, but I'm puzzled as to why you would be fuming at the woman. I would personally be dlkz and assume that she either wasn't aware of the pregnancy yet when she accepted the job, or she may have been trying to conceive for years and this was a surprise for her too.

MaBelleVie

Thu, May 15 2014, 7:39 pm

amother wrote:

Yes, this. I absolutely can not wrap my head around being furious at a woman for successfully conceiving via ivf.

Peanut2

Thu, May 15 2014, 7:49 pm

shirachadasha wrote:

And a woman who has reached menopause may adopt. And a man might decide to take leave, too.
(Not disagreeing with you, just adding on.)

It is so insane that Jewish employers think they can disregard the law just because we are all Yidden.
I was asked how old I was at an interview a few years back, by someone with smicha. And I answered. Should have said that it's illegal for him to ask. Oof.