ALARMING! Please Only Respond If You Support Vaccinations

amother

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 8:22 am

amother wrote:

Rav Makiel Kotler's the rosh hayeshiva of Lakewood big is anti vac and gives anyone an exception.

Prove this. I have not seen this. I do not believe this.

R' Kotler does not pasken halacha. He himself will not answer halachic questions. Thus, I cannot believe any statement where he has supposedly paskened halacha. Furthermore, I have spoken to big rabbanim who do pasken in Lakewood who say vaccinations are mandatory halachically. Prove to me that R' Kotler would (1) go against these gedolim and (2) pasken halacha when he never has. If you can show me a signature where he did this, I will personally speak with him and find out what is the emes. I spoke to a relative who is a talmid of his this morning who told me unless I see this in writing, do not believe this statement.

Can people please stop using names of rabbanim like this? I have seen someone post the R' Kanievsky paskened that we do not need to vaccinate. He has always refused to pasken on something his father-in-law already did. He has great respect for his father-in-law who paskened that vaccinations are obligatory. This is wrong. Very, very wrong to use the names of rabbanim like this. Halacha is this case goes according to the medical establishment.

I have spoken with big, big gedolim regarding this issue. I have always found the answer is the same. We are obligated halachically to vaccinate unless a specific child has an allergy and was advised by a personal physician.

-amother in vaccine development

amother

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 8:25 am

amother wrote:

He backed my sister who is anti vaccines when she ran into an issue with work/school.

amother

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 8:39 am

amother wrote:

He backed my sister who is anti vaccines when she ran into an issue with work/school.

Show me his signature. He may have done something for a specific reason for a specific case. I could believe for a specific case he acted in a specific manner.

BUT, Show me where he signed something stating that vaccines are not a halachic issue and he does not agree with them or that he paskened that they are not necessary. When, you can show me this, I will contact him. I do not believe that he (1) paskened when he does not and (2) that he disagress with the poskim in Lakewood including his very own rabbeim.

I'm sorry, but, he does not pasken. He may have done something in a specific case. But, show me something that states that he stands in opposition to every single rav in his city and did something that he refuses to do. If you can dig this up, I will contact him.

-amother in vaccine development

dancingqueen

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 11:22 am

seeker wrote:

1. There was a whole other thread recently about whether anti-vaxers trust doctors for other things. Search it, there were interesting points made on all sides.
.

Were there? I don't remember anyone saying they wouldn't use antibiotics or decline life saving surgery except perhaps think1st.

amother

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 11:55 am

amother wrote:

So you want me to out myself and my sister to you anonymously so you can go check it out. Contact him yourself if you want. He backed her decision not to vaccinate although it meant going against other people. I won't post more details here. Feel free to call him if you want.

Scrabble123

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 12:01 pm

amother wrote:

Do you have something with his signature? You can white out your name!

I hope you realize that it is inappropriate to called Rov and say "I heard that you backed someone when not vaccinating." It's totally disrespectful to call based on what you heard without any proof or backing just to get an opinion or question what he did. I wouldn't be surprised if he refused to the discuss the matter further under such circumstances.

amother

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 12:14 pm

amother wrote:

If you claim that a gadol paskened against others especially one who does not pasken, then, yes you are required to show us. People are always misquoting rabbanim. If someone like this made such a statement, we need to know first hand. How do we know you are telling the truth? This isn't a game about outing. This is real. Did the rav of BMG say vaccinations are not required by Jewish law? Does he interpret Jewish law differently than everyone else/our gedolim? Or, did he do a favor for your sister?

This isn't a game about us both being anonymous. I did not make claims about rabbanim without using names and public statements. You did.

But, I will try to use my Lakewood contacts to call his home and ask for clarification.

-amother in vaccine development

amother

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 12:16 pm

Scrabble123 wrote:

Don't worry, I will call respectfully! I have spoken to other rabbanim about vaccinating before. But, I will let him know people are making such statements in his name.

-amother in vaccine development

mirror

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 12:49 pm

amother wrote:

Can someone please post a link to the thread about exemption paperwork? I am having a difficult time locating the thread.

Thank you!

--amother whose baby caught whooping cough from the "trendy" anti-vaxxers

Oy vay. How is your baby now? How old was your baby at the time? How long was your baby hospitalized?

amother

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 12:52 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

I apologize if I'm wrong, but is Rav Malkiel a posek? He is a RY but AFAIK people do not go to him to pasken halacha. Again, I do not mean any disrespect against a gadol batorah.

That is exactly what I was saying. My relative who is a talmid told me the rav will not pasken halacha. He sends you to others.

-amother in vaccine development

amother

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 12:53 pm

amother wrote:

Wow, I'm so sorry for you. I have seen a kid with this once and it was enough to traumatize me. I'm so sorry you went through this.

-amother in vaccine development

amother

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 12:58 pm

OPINIONATED wrote:

Oy vay. How is your baby now? How old was your baby at the time? How long was your baby hospitalized?

I found the thread! (Needed to log in.)

B"H my baby had a complete refuah sheimah and did not require hospitalization.

My region is in the midst of a whooping cough epidemic due to the extraordinarily low rate of vaccination. I shudder at the thought of what will happen if it ch'v happens in the frum communities of New York and New Jersey, with so many small babies... how people who believe in Kol Yisroel Aveirim Zeh BaZeh can do this to each other is mind boggling.

mirror

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 12:58 pm

Scotty wrote:

Vey Zmir.

I always tell anti-vaccinators to RESEARCH what it is we're vaccinating AGAINST, and they'll run to the doctor for the shots before they can finish hyperventilating.

Seriously, has any anti-vax mom ever REALLY read on what polio is?!?!?!? And that's just the first step. It nauseates me. Be safe and be glad Hashem has given us the priceless opportunity to avoid such piteous and painful agony!!!!

True.

And does Big Pharma really make more money on the vaccines than on the lung machines, A.K.A. Iron Lung?

amother

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 1:20 pm

amother wrote:

I said nothing about a psak. I said he backed her. She was not asking for a psak halacha.

Ema of 5

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 1:28 pm

amother wrote:

You said it yoursf- he backed HER DECISION. Meaning it was a one time thing. I highly doubt he went against gedolim and paskened, whih is something he clearly doesn't pasken. (I know nothing about him, so I am taking it at face value when people say he doesn't pasken) I doubt anyone will find his name signed to anything, especially if he.normally doesn't pasken. Keep in mind, a one time thing for one person in one situation is not the same as "he says you don't need to vax.

Scrabble123

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 1:34 pm

amother wrote:

I said nothing about a psak. I said he backed her. She was not asking for a psak halacha.

Let me quote you:

amother wrote:

Rav Makiel Kotler's the rosh hayeshiva of Lakewood big is anti vac and gives anyone an exception.

I trust in the future, you will explain that it was a one time exception, unless of course you do have written proof that it was a psak (and please share it with us, if you do).

amother

Mon, Jun 02 2014, 1:42 pm

amother wrote:

I said nothing about a psak. I said he backed her. She was not asking for a psak halacha.

So we've gone from

Quote:

Rav Makiel Kotler's the rosh hayeshiva of Lakewood big is anti vac and gives anyone an exception.

to in one case, based on one specific set of facts, a rabbi backed a mother's decision not to vaccinate her child.

Of course, we don't know why he supported her.

Maybe the child was at particular risk of a reaction. Maybe the parent was irrational and he felt that an exemption was necessary to protect her mental health. Maybe she threatened that she would move to a place where exemptions were more readily available, but where her children would not receive a Jewish education.

What we do know is that there's no generalized psak and, apart from this anonymous amother's comments, there is no known evidence that Rav Kotler is opposed to vaccinations, personally or halachically.

So, again, provide evidence of this assertion. Rav Kotler is prominent. Surely if he feels so strongly, his opinions have been published, or at least referred to elsewhere.