last ditch effort to keep daughter out of PS -meeting today

Kugglegirl

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 1:53 am

I think OP, your experience with the finance committee is, unfortunately, common for many & in many day schools. (I am lucky that DH does all the negotiating with those committees & leaves the education negotiations up to me.)

Just daven to H'shem to help you be m'chauch your children.

As a parent with kids in both day schools & public schools, I will say that my children in public schools have grown in yiddishkeit in important ways. They have challenges and opportunities that they would not have in day school.

May you have much nachas from all your children.

amother

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 8:31 am

Well, I woke up way too early and had a very hard time getting to sleep. As much as I am trying to convince myself that I am really ok with this decision and that it is in fact the right one, I'm afraid that I'm not doing a good job of convincing myself. My heart feels sad and heavy and I feel like there is a dark cloud hanging over me.

I also forgot to mention one of the worst parts of the meeting yesterday. Right after we arrived, we mentioned the phone call that the Rabbi made on our behalf. The guy looked at us blankly and said, "What Rabbi?" I get calls from a lot of Rabbis. It was as if he had no idea who we were and what we were doing there. I still can't get over that. Then 2 minutes letter my husband mentioned an email that he had sent and this guy had no clue what we were talking about. It was as if we were just a number and that's it. He did not care an ounce about the personal aspect of it all. I almost wish that we never came in. He was unsympathetic and unemotional- just stoic and I find it scary that someone like that was hired for this position.

I'm feeling sad for my husband too. He's tries so hard and this is really stressing him out. I'm usually the one who falls apart, right now I think he is feeling frustrated, disillusioned and discouraged.

I want to be brave. But I am such a big baby really. I wish I can just hide my head in the sand. Part of me feels like do what you have to do, don't make a big deal about it or tell the world. It doesn't need to become a bigger issue than it is. If it comes up in conversation be honest and keep all answers short and simple then move on. There should be no shame in doing what is best for my family and my situation. Yet, I am torturing myself. I don't know if I can put it all out there. But after being on this site and reading so many articles in magazines and online about the tuition crises, I practically feel an obligation to be public and loud with how this whole thing plays out. This is so not me. I don't know if I am really strong enough. I don't know if I should. I don't know if I can.

We made a call and sent an email yesterday afternoon to the HS in order to see if they can give us more of a break in tuition. I doubt it, but we had to at least try.

I am very desperate to just tell my daughter and see how she reacts. I NEED to know if she will seem ok with it. But my husband says we need to wait a bit more, see if we hear back from the HS or come up with any other brilliant ideas.

The Rabbi of the school prefers to stay out of these financial matters. We can't rely on him and tried to reach out earlier. This has only added to our frustration. The Rav of our shul made the call, I don't know how much more we can pull him in. He has tried to help as best as he can. Not sure what more he can do.

Thank you again for your words of encouragement and your empathy. It means so much!

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 9:45 am

mdoif wrote:

Sell you house but not your child! Putting a Yiddish child in a non jewish environment is spiritual murder. I greatly sympathize with the OP and my heart goes out for her. It must be devastating to have such financial difficulties, but please please please do not murder your child! PS is never an option for a Yiddish kind.

Murder of children? Gosh, talk about over dramatic. You have kids who come out of yeshiva and are not frum and you have children who come out of public school who come out nice and frum.
What a terrible thing to say.
I have been trying very hard to try and find positive in all Jews, so I am going to think that you have never been in financial dwang the way the OP is in.

I know quiet a few children who went through PS and they are all fine frum jews.

Please, next time before you post such a terrible post, think. Think of how your words will hurt the OP. The OP may have no choice at all.

Ruchel

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 10:01 am

mdoif wrote:

So pay the school or build one for her. There are schools who only take people who pay full tuition, or only people who are charedi, etc. Go tell rabbanim to not send their kids to PS or to never allow or even recommend it.

Last edited by Ruchel on Wed, Jul 16 2014, 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total

Notsobusy

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 10:01 am

[quote="amother There should be no shame in doing what is best for my family and my situation.

The Rabbi of the school prefers to stay out of these financial matters. We can't rely on him and tried to reach out earlier. This has only added to our frustration. The Rav of our shul made the call, I don't know how much more we can pull him in. He has tried to help as best as he can. Not sure what more he can do.

[/quote]
The only shame here is the person you met with, the school administrators who hired such a person, and the rabbi of the school.
A school should not have a rabbi who is afraid to get involved in all aspects of the school. The financial matters are a huge part of a school, not just as far as the tuition end.
I'm so sorry that you were put in this situation, and that you are stuck dealing with such people, who seem to have no heart. It seems like you are doing the best you can and that you have really thought it through. Hatzlacha.

Barbara

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 10:08 am

OP, you're doing what's right and necessary for your family. Kol hakavod.

Please ignore the people making ridiculous statements about public schools. Lots of kids have attended public school and done quite well. IMNSHO, if you're going to do it, now is the time. Your DD is in 2d grade. The most "inappropriate" thing you're likely to encounter is excessive viewing of Frozen. And it sounds like you have a really solid plan in place for her to continue her Jewish studies.

As to telling your DD, IIRC, you said that she's in camp this summer with kids who would be in public school with her. Has she made friends? Tell her that you decided that she'd really enjoy a new school, and that she'd get to be with her new friends. Don't tell her that its money, or that its not a decision that you really wanted to make. Present it as entirely positive.

amother

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 10:39 am

This thread makes me so sad. What have we come to that our Jewish school system is forcing kids into public schools over money? If you end up sending her to public school it sounds like your daughter will do really well since you seem like devoted and loving parents, but why should you have to?
The school should really work with you in a kind and caring way to figure something out. If they honestly do not have enough money, then they should have someone who can fund raise on behalf of your daughter and other children to cover the discrepancy between what you can pay and what they need. It sounds like the person at the school is haggling with you like it is a business deal rather than the well-being of an 8 year old girl.
On the flip side, people who stiff schools of money owed perpetuate the problem. Also people who really can afford to pay more tuition but choose not to also hurt people in your situation. It could be the school is acting like this because other people threaten to send to public school just to get tuition breaks when perhaps they can really afford to pay more tuition, just don't want to.
I don't have any advice, not sure what to do in the situation but I hope everything works out. And I truly believe your daughter will do well no matter where she is because it sounds like you and your husband are completely devoted to your children.
A thought- Is there a tzedaka or gemach that can lend you money for the year?

Raisin

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 10:45 am

amother wrote:

Why I find the whole tuition crisis tragic, at the end of the day, the school has to pay its bills, teachers have to be paid, etc etc Without families or donors paying up, the school will close. Someone close me is currently paying $1K per kid to her school. Tuition is $9K. Huge gap. She will not be able to send next year but it's amazing the school kept her as long as they did. It's a sad situation but really don't make the school the bad guys. There's only so much they can do.

They can be nice about it. It does not sound like the Op was treated nicely. Smiles are free.

SRS

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 11:52 am

amother wrote:

If they honestly do not have enough money, then they should have someone who can fund raise on behalf of your daughter and other children to cover the discrepancy between what you can pay and what they need. It sounds like the person at the school is haggling with you like it is a business deal rather than the well-being of an 8 year old girl.
On the flip side, people who stiff schools of money owed perpetuate the problem. Also people who really can afford to pay more tuition but choose not to also hurt people in your situation. It could be the school is acting like this because other people threaten to send to public school just to get tuition breaks when perhaps they can really afford to pay more tuition, just don't want to.

Reality check. I most certainly feel for this family. They were offering a lot of money to educate their child, but not as much as the school wanted, but certainly respectible. So I feel for them.

But a little hakaras hatov to the schools AND the donors, even schools with stoic business office people. I do not know a school that is NOT fundraising. Nearly every single school is charging more in tuition than the average cost per student essentially fundraising from full paying parents. You have parents who are donating services to the school, often services that are costly on the market. I know someone who puts in a good amount of time dealing with the technology at a small yeshiva and is not paid a penny and his services are worth tens of thousands. He doesn't even have kids in school any longer.

Schools have massive committees taking part in fundraising dinners, auctions, and more.

In other words, they ARE fundraising on behalf of every single student that is on scholarship above the cost of the average education. And even those paying that much still have had funds raised to get the school started.

I feel horrible for this family. They are bringing tons of money to the table, probably tons of money than other families on scholarship. I think the school should be working with them. But there really are few good solutions at this point. Tuition rates have shot up beyond belief. Families are working their tails off to make it happen. Families have over-committed and stiffed schools. Families have walked out on what they owe. Families have lied to schools. The entire thing is a mess. There is little trust between schools and families. There is little trust between full paying families and scholarship families. It really is all a bit mess. So many mistakes have happened throughout the years.

But as a parent paying for my own kid and 2/3's of the kid next to mine, please a little respect. People are fundraising and we are just at a point where you can't squeeze water from a rock.

RachelLA

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 12:06 pm

OP---

You mentioned not telling your daughter because you don't know how she will react.

You must understand that your reaction will shape her reaction. If you tell her with a defeated attitude she will feel defeated too. She will feel like this is the worst thing to happen to her. And it really, really, really isn't. NOT by a long shot.

Why do you want to send her to a school that sees her as a green dollar bill instead of a young Jewish woman whom they get the honor of helping mold in Yiddishkeit? And if their attitude is like this, imagine what their academic curriculum is like??!!! Crappy, that's what. So not only would you be spending thousands and digging yourself further and further into debt, you also wouldn't be getting much value on the money you spent.

The reason why you feel like a dark cloud is hanging over your head is because you need to change the way you think a little. It doesn't matter what people in your community (or other communities) think about you sending your daughter to a PS!!!!! Do they pay your bills? NO! Do they put food on your table? NO! Do they put clothes on your back? NO! Are they there to raise your children? NO!!

So why are you giving strangers so much control over what you do and how you do it? Know that if you always set stock by what other people think, so will your daughter. Monkey see, Monkey do. And that's a very dangerous way to live out your life. You MUST REMIND YOURSELF THAT YOUR PRIORITY IS YOUR FAMILY AND SCREW (SORRY FOR THE ENGLISH LOL) WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK. By the way, as a side note, it is always these people who -- 10-20 years later-- look at you and think to themselves "they weren't that dumb after all. Wish I had been smart like them."

Whether someone turns out frum with strong values-- both in Torah and in Life-- depends more on the home in which they were raised instead of the school that they went to.

So keep your chin up and know that so long as you keep a strong foundation of Torah and Yiddishkeit and modesty at home, this is so so so not the END of the world.

Dolly Welsh

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 12:16 pm

It is so hard not to think of this as some kind of personal verdict.

In fact, sometimes it is.

Too badsky. The community as a whole is doing its best.

There are a lot of ways to the desired outcome, all of them lumpy. YES there are rotten kids who had every educational advantage and theoretically should not be rotten kids.

And as one reads here, the right people can produce the right kids with PS, tutoring, and home schooling, if the mentality is energetic and positive-minded enough.

We Jews have had our fill of being a struggling minority, and have no love for wandering the halls of public schools with the kids doing and wearing and thinking things that aren't our thing.

We don't like it, and it isn't so great, either.

Me, I would home school. With tutors more knowledgeable than myself supplementing. And distance learning via Skype on computer, in an organized home schooling community that had occasional meetings face to face, visiting, conventions, get-togethers, overnights for the kids.

A lot of work, sure, but it's also a lot of work to earn tuition money, so everything's a lot of work and THIS kind of work might be more fun than the office. It is not a barrel of laughs at the office.

Hugs OP.

It seems you will have to make lemonade.

Don't take it personally. If you can.

In fact, make, instruct and force your other yeshiva-schooled children to share, teach and inculcate, your kids who aren't in yeshiva. As a job. Every single day.

Your dear little girl must be trained to accost and wring from her yeshiva-trained brother, daily, Fine Bro so what did you learn today? I have to know it too, so tell me. Now. Huh? What does that mean? Show me your work. What does this mean? Oh. OK. Just fifteen minutes a day.

And the same tomorrow. You can get two educations out of it, sort of. Supervise that yourself, and make it happen. She is too nice to do it on her own. She won't be insistent enough, the sweet creature.

Bro will get it. He is a nice boy.

amother

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 12:35 pm

This is why my DH and I stopped giving money to Oorah, we need to help keep kids in yeshiva if they want to stay. We give our kids schools as much as we can.

On a side note I heard of people sending their kids to public school because they cant afford the tuition. DH knows a chasidish man who became I guess what you can call MO. He cant afford to $18,000+ tuition each for their 2 kids on the salary he makes with no real english education. They can afford the chasidish yeshiva tuition of $250 (or less) a month at the yeshiva they went to, but dont want to send their kids there. So their kids are going to public school, and they are not the type to supplement with Henrew studies.

The parents blame the frum employers for not paying them enough.

My DH was really moved when someone at work told him this. DH went to speak to someone at work and that guy told him that the money is just an excuse. If they give this guy a big raise there is no way he will send his kids to yeshiva.

Your story touched us so much because you want to send your daughter to a jewish school. It is so sad. Its really sad that you dont have another option. How far the is the closest school? Is that an option?