Do I pull child out of school principal found protecting mol

amother

Sun, Aug 10 2014, 7:14 pm

The question is once the Cbd issued their psak she tried to cover up for him. I'm not holding her accountable for before Cbd got involved but once Cbd came out with their psak and she knew about it and she was involved with the sham sale and other sham stuff for her brother. She deliberately mislead parents. Anyone can read the lawsuit themselves. The parents used to deal with her and she was deliberately misleading the parents with false information.
My question is just because she covered up for her brother do u think she would do it for a teacher in her school too one day cvs or is it just that it's family and her brother did pay her very well.

debsey

Sun, Aug 10 2014, 7:19 pm

amother wrote:

The sale has not been proven to be a sham, and again - she's the secretary, she's the one who's going to be signing those papers and providing them. How do you know she didn't think it was a real sale? I know her - she's just not a dishonest sort. Maybe she was mislead? I don't know. What I do know is that she runs the best English department in Lakewood, she is a wonderful person, and I doubt that most of what went on had anything to do with her. My gut feeling is that she acted honestly with the information she had. So she was at worst, a useful naif. Whereas in her own school, she is very hands on and involved. I can't imagine her being naive on her own turf.

amother

Sun, Aug 10 2014, 7:22 pm

That's my question. Do I just assume she was innocent and didn't know anything and keep my child there or do I investigate or do I just pull a child out?

Once CBD issued their psak it's kind of hard to say oh I didn't know anything and especially with angry parents calling you on the phone and saying their point and saying the sale is a sham etc. give us back our money. Parents did call and speak to her and she deliberately mislead them. Do I just assume she's naive and in her school she won't be naive?

debsey

Sun, Aug 10 2014, 7:25 pm

amother wrote:

Personally, I think it's two seperate issues and you'd be hard put to find a better school.

MaBelleVie

Sun, Aug 10 2014, 7:57 pm

Why don't you call rabbi fuerst and get some real info, instead of speculating on what she might or might not have known and/or done? It's my understanding that he is providing guidance to parents involved in all this.

amother

Sun, Aug 10 2014, 8:10 pm

I tend to agree with the posters above that your daughter's principal is in the US & not involved in the seminaries in Israel on a personal basis.

Her name may have been on letters or memos, but it's pretty easy to copy someone's signature or even use an email with their name. I would possibly ask someone on the Bais Din for clarification, if you're concerned, but the Bais Din is not saying to put every person named in cherem, are they?

Also, the person you're talking about is only part of the hanhallah at your daughter's school. If you have no reason to distrust the Hebrew principal, I don't think there is any reason to suspect that there could be a cover-up in your daughter's school.

To me your situation - where your daughter comes home every day, and you meet the teachers and her friends in real life - seems very different than sending a daughter overseas.

chani8

Sun, Aug 10 2014, 11:37 pm

I really think the best thing to do is to have a very open discussion about the principal with your DD. And let her share this info with all of her classmates. Using loshen hara l'toeles, the girls will IY'H be safe and empowered.

You should also talk about this with other parents.

The principal should step down until the investigation is concluded, and of course, if found guilty, she's finished being a principal.

cityofgold

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 12:04 am

I would guess that once the lawsuit is concluded, if ch"v the principal is found guilty, she will be asked to step down. If a school board maintained the principal afterward, then, yes, I would pull my child out. But they might pull the principal out and then you don't have to cause that havoc in your child's life. Principals do run a school day-to-day, but they can be fired and the board + the parents can have a lot of influence on that.

Chani8, I would be very, very careful about sharing that information with a young girl before it was verified. Not because of the content, but because of the person. Unless she has heard rumors, in which case I would definitely want to be the one providing a mature, appropriate view.

5*Mom

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 12:26 am

amother wrote:

My question is just because she covered up for her brother do u think she would do it for a teacher in her school too one day

I think you need to recognize that almost every principal would cover up for a teacher in their school who is accused of molestation. Unfortunately, our schools don't have a thorough understanding of molestation nor is there a standard protocol in place for administrators to follow when there is an accusation, which leaves a gaping void to be filled by the natural instinct for self preservation which is to deny and cover up.

Parents need to band together, educate themselves about molestation and grooming, and in particular consult with professionals about the best professional protocol that should be instituted in schools for prevention and reporting of violations. Meet with administrators and educate them in turn, and push for implementation. This benefits the students obviously, as well as the school, because once a professional protocol is in place and is followed, it limits a school's exposure and liability. It's good all around. This is where parents should be investing their efforts. This will need to be a grass roots effort. If parents won't do this, it won't be done.

Dina_B613

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 1:25 am

Yes, I would pull her out so fast it would make your head spin. But, then, that's me. People with questionable judgment, in my book, wouldn't get to spend with or have any responsibility over my kids.

I have a huge pet peeve: Would people on this board stop saying "innocent until proven guilty?" That applies to a COURT OF LAW, not to a parent's decision about where to send their child to school! There is no law that we, as citizens, must put our children in precarious situations because "innocent until proven guilty." Furthermore, proving someone guilty can be a heavy burden, many people are acquitted (or never brought to trial) because of a lack of evidence or technicalities. Using this phrase in a situation like this is not only inaccurate, it just makes you sound dumb!

FYI: If the gov't has a contract with a company, and the company is accused of committing a crime, then the gov't can suspend its contract with said company. Why doesn't the OP have the same rights in her private life?

Raisin

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 3:41 am

Sadly, I don't think other schools would necessarily be any better in this regard.

I also think calling the relevant beis din is a good idea.

I agree with the previous poster about being proactive about child protection.

SRS

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 4:48 am

I'm quite taken by the clarity that the Chicago Beis Din acted with and continues to act with against pressure. I would call the Beis Din Rabbis, find out what she knew and when and what actions followed and make your decisions based on that. If she is named in the lawsuit, there must be a reason and knowing that reason is key to making an educated decision.

amother

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 6:42 am

My question is once the Cbd gave their psak shouldnt meisels sister R S, since she is the secretary for the school research the psak and call Cbd to see what it is before she spoke to future parents out of obligation or is it ok to say he's my brother I'm not going to believe lashon harah about him and just listen when her brother tells her the seminaries are safe.

Is that the kind of principal u want for your daughter? A principal who doesn't research so that later on they can claim ignorance.

rosenbal

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 6:49 am

I think we should all have a rule to just ignore mdoif. It's kind of like if neturei karta is trying to engage you in a conversation....why even go there?! Really, just ignore all provocations. It's really becoming a consistent problem here. She's not breaking any rules so we just neef her to get good and bored.

About the issue at hand, I hope people realize the OP is NOT talking about sending her DD to one of the israel sems. Those the CDC said NO to going. She has a younger DD and apparently meisels sister is the English principal there.

Talk to CDC but it but she's in Lakewood people. We all know from thus board what a horror the schools are. If she's happy (enough) with the school, she should probobly stay. I'm not naive enough to think any of thise schools would be any better (assuming she even gets her DD into another school).

By the way, what I'm saying isn't the right thing to do, its the pragmatic thing to do. Unless you tell her to leave Lakewood. And even then, the more I read of abuse coverups the more I'm inclined to think that all anyone is interested is protecting their institutions. YU, Penn State, Catholic Church, Torah Temimah (gedolim knew the allegations), any chssidus, any DA elected by a voting block....no one gives a da** about our kids when it conflicts with their personal interest and agenda.

Op, you should have ongoing age appropriate talks with your DCs about good touch bad touch, keep an open nonjudgmental relationship with your kids. And daven. Do u want to take the moral highroad here? It would be nice, but you know you'll either have to move or homeschool. I hope no one runs u out of town.

Sigh. Yes, I'm very jaded.

Sorry for my horrible grammar spelling etc...im on a phone...I really am educated Wink

Chayalle

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 7:15 am

Everywhere you go, every place you send your kids....there could potentially be someone who is a molester or protecting one.

So teach your kids boundaries. Talk to them about what's appropriate and what's not, from a young age. Cultivate a relationship with them and let them know that they can talk to you about anything, anytime.

That's the only thing that will help them...other than going off to live on your own outside of civilization.

5*Mom

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 7:28 am

For an example of a professional response protocol, here is an excellent post by David Morris:
http://tzedek-tzedek.blogspot.......html

Quote:

THIS LETTER WAS NOT WRITTEN NOR SENT OUT BY PNIMIM, BINAS BAIS YAKOV, CHEDVAS BAIS YAAKOV OR KESER CHAYA SEMINARIES.

However, if it had been, I believe this situation would be far better today, than it is.

See previous postings here on Tzedek-Tzedek, Frum Follies (in the CBD corner), Daat Torah (in the IBD corner) and other fine blogs.

This is a suggested model for such situations in the future.

You are invited to suggest improvements either on-line or by email to me offline.

I believe that such a letter would have promoted safety and responsibility, in a way which would have given the parents the confidence they need and are entitled to that these Seminaries will be safer for their daughters in the future, than they were in the past.
-----

Date of Letter: [Within One Week of the Seminaries becoming aware of the Chicago Beit Din’s investigation and findings].

To our staff, students and parents,

We are writing to you in the most regretful circumstances in a timely fashion in order to put you all in the picture, in the interests of the safety of our students, and transparency & accountability before the parents.

We have just been informed by the special Chicago Beis Din (CBD) that the founder and proprietor of our seminaries, Rabbi Elimelech Meisels, has been investigated by the CBD, further to complaints the Beis Din received from pupils of the seminaries. These complaints concerned serious allegations of unwanted s-xual contact by Rabbi Meisels.

As a result of the investigation, the CBD has made this announcement:

We first wish to share our deepest regret & sincere grief should any of our staff have participated, wittingly or unwittingly, directly or indirectly in any abuse. We feel the pain of the alleged victims and we feel proud that these girls have had the courage to step forward in order to protect others girls.

We reach out and strongly encourage others who have endured any kind of abuse, or were witnesses to the same, during their time at our seminaries, to take this step also.

As a result of this CBD announcement, we have immediately taken the following steps:

1. Regretfully, we have discovered that there is and never has been a Seminary Protocol Concerning Abuse Prevention & Reporting in any of our seminaries. We have therefore referred this important matter of omission to Such & Such Organization, which is an independent non-profit agency and they will establish these protocols in all our seminaries. The S&SO will be acting under The Committee (see below). Deadline for implementation: 15th August, 2014.

2. In the absence of this protocol, we have formed an independent expert committee (“the Committee”) consisting of Rabbi X, Social Worker Y, and Lawyer Z.

This committee has been vetted by both the CBD, the Israeli Beit Din (IBD) referred to in the CBD’s declaration and Such & Such Organization; they have concluded that the individuals and collectively the Committee is of the highest professional and ethical reputation and can be relied upon to be independent and to protect the safety & confidentiality of anyone who refers to them.

The committee’s contact details are: XXXX

In light of the Committee’s immediate advice and instruction:

3. Rabbi Meisels has been requested by the Committee and has committed to take immediate leave of absence and will only return to a role in the seminaries in future in the event that he is entirely vindicated of wrong-doing. Rabbi Meisels has agreed to have no further contact, immediately and until further notice, with anyone associated with the seminaries, including governors, staff, pupils and parents. (For administrative purposes Rabbi Meisels will communicate via the IBD).

4. The Committee has contacted the Israeli police to brief them, with a view to the police investigating and addressing any aspects of this case which are or could be criminal by nature. We strongly encourage anyone with information which may be helpful to this police inquiry to contact: Detective Plonit (who is a female investigator,experienced with crimes of this nature) contact details XXXXX.

If you are in doubt as to whether the information you possess is significant in this context, you may contact The Committee for their expert confidential advice and counsel.

5. Regarding issues of finance (dinei mamon/civil) in Israel, the IBD has graciously made themselves available to accept and judge claims either presented jointly or separately; the IBD will be operating officially as Arbitrators. The IBD has given assurances that they are impartial and will deliver their judgments, according to halacha and which will also be legally binding upon the parties, and in a timely fashion.

IBD contact details:

6. Regarding issues of financial damages (dinei mamon) in the USA, the above is true for the CBD.

CBD contact details.

These are the steps which have been taken in immediate response to to the declaration of the CBD.

Enrollment for Next Academic Year: Moving forward, our objective is to ascertain that the schools will be safe, beyond all doubt, for you (our pupils) and your daughters in the coming academic year, commencing 1st September 2014.

We understand that you have legitimate concerns about whether your daughters should attend our seminaries in the coming year, and we will make every effort to address these concerns in our ongoing communications.

You are invited to discuss these concerns with the Committee by email or by phone (Committee contact details and hours of availability)

We fully understand if you chose to find alternative educational institutions for your daughters for next year, as is your right, and we will be entirely helpful in this regard.

If you wish to apply for a refund of your deposits, please contact the CBD (for those who paid the Pnimim USA non-profit) or IBD (for those who paid Israeli Amuta). An application form for refunds is available on the website: www.xyz.org) The Batei Din have indicated a response time of approximately two weeks to respond to your request. You may may submit applications until 15th August for your deposit to be returned.

Summary: These are the allocation of responsibilities.

a. The Committee - professional issues relating to the alleged abuse

b. Israeli Beit Din (IBD) - financial issues (dinei mamon) in Israel

c. Special Chicago Beit Din (CBD) - financial issues (dinei mamon) in the USA

d. The Police (Israel) - criminal issues in Israel

e. The Minhalim - implementation

We are making every effort in these extraordinary and regretful circumstances to prioritize the uncompromised safety of our students, particularly for the coming academic year and ongoing, and we would appreciate your expression of confidence by continuing the enrollment process for 2014/15.

We will report our next steps on a scheduled bi-weekly basis. (In the case we have further urgent information to relay, we will contact you whenever required).

Once again, we express our deepest pain for any student who may have suffered inappropriate behaviour while a student in our seminaries.

Yours sincerely

Signed: Four Principals
Representative of CBD
Representative of IBD
Representative of The Committee.

5*Mom

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 7:33 am

The above can be used as a point of departure for parents and schools interested in establishing a protocol for dealing with allegations of impropriety, including appointing rabbanim, professionals and committees in advance who will know what their roles are and can step in to fulfill them immediately in the event of an incident. A school that has a clear protocol in place and is educated and upfront about molestation and abuse is less likely to attract teachers inclined to perpetrate such abuse. Not worth the risk.

blessedbyamiracle

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 3:11 pm

amother wrote:

I really want to stay on topic. U can open another thread about that

My question is if his sister is the English principal of a school is there a legitimate concern that if chv there was s-xual abuse in her school is she not trustworthy?

Yes to ur original question.

No to ur question above.
Actually it shud be Yes, since u put in the negative=not.
Is she trustworthy=no
Is she not trustworthy=yes

(My opinion only- altho not a blind one)

Last edited by blessedbyamiracle on Mon, Aug 11 2014, 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Tue, Aug 12 2014, 1:33 pm

True story: our school, let's call it School A, bought a building from School B.

Subsequently, School B bought another building and ran it as a nursing home. An employee allegedly assaulted another employee. The victims lawyers sued the alleged assailant, the management at the nursing home, as well as the owners of the building, School B, as well as School A, presumably because a title search of School B turned up the building bought by School A.

I told our lawyer to tell them we're suing them for a frivolous lawsuit if they don't drop our name immediately.

So I am just saying that lawyers can involve anyone tangentially or remotely connected to an alleged perpetrator, and all those parties are still innocent until proven guilty.