Food in NON kosher restaurants

amother

Sun, May 13 2007, 7:14 pm

the point is that if you're a woman and not wearing a kippa and payes, it's not maaras ayin! maaras ayin is doing something that "looks" wrong-- but since a woman isn't identifiable as a jew, it doesn't look wrong!

I actually asked this shaila and that was my answer-- long story, but I was "expected" to be at an event in a treif restaurant-- I for sure wasn't going to eat, but I asked a shaila on entering at all.

yoyosma

Sun, May 13 2007, 7:15 pm

But what is one to do on Road trips? The gas station is usually attached to a McDonald's or something similar, I never had a choice!
As for times when you toilet train, if you are in the city and your child has to go, you run for the nearest bathroom, at least I did! I dont care where!

Crayon210

Sun, May 13 2007, 7:32 pm

amother wrote:

Okay, and I think there are other opinions that something that is halachically maris ayin is assur even if NO ONE is around. Literally no one.

chocolate moose

Sun, May 13 2007, 9:34 pm

My mom, in the wilds of surburbia, even gets meat at her local Giant. She hasn't gotten non glatt meat in over a dozen years.

I can't believe there's a market for it, as I can't believe that so many restaurants are cholov yisroel.

amother

Sun, May 13 2007, 9:56 pm

I used to go to karaoke inside a bar that also was a treif restaurant.

We would order drinks. Some non jews and non frum jews would order fried calamari.

But there were still 30+ frum jews there on any given night.

healthymama

Sun, May 13 2007, 10:04 pm

Quote:

Okay, and I think there are other opinions that something that is halachically maris ayin is assur even if NO ONE is around. Literally no one.

I'm confused, please explain. Maris ayin means that someone will mistakenly conclude that something you are doing is allowed. So if no one, really no one is there, how can anything fall into this category?

Crayon210

Sun, May 13 2007, 10:07 pm

healthymama wrote:

Quote:

Okay, and I think there are other opinions that something that is halachically maris ayin is assur even if NO ONE is around. Literally no one.

The halacha is about doing the thing, not just about being seen.

shalhevet

Mon, May 14 2007, 1:05 am

chocolate moose wrote:

I would be a bit suspicious - how can it be economically viable to have all the meat glatt? If it's not glatt, it is quite often kosher and can be sold as that. In fact I have heard that the best glatt hechsherim also have 'just' kosher meat because then they can be more stringent on what they count as glatt. If it's all glatt or treif then it would be very expensive. But maybe America is different to EY because they don't make such a loss selling treif meat to a non-kosher place.

I was very interested to read that it wouldn't be considered maris ayin for a frum woman because no-one can tell she's frum. Is that really true? In Israel everyone can tell you are frum from a mile away, even in winter. Is that an indication of the tzniyus standards amongst other people in EY? Sad

chanadownunda

Mon, May 14 2007, 3:34 am

regarding the coke at a rest stop: there's a difference between going up to the couter and buying a coke in a cup from their machines with a straw, to buying a bottled coke from a machine that you insert coins into that is outside the bathroom. I would do the latter and not the former.

PinkandYellow

Mon, May 14 2007, 6:22 am

Crayon210 wrote:

healthymama wrote:

Quote:

Okay, and I think there are other opinions that something that is halachically maris ayin is assur even if NO ONE is around. Literally no one.

The halacha is about doing the thing, not just about being seen.

crayon is correct. maras ayin is maras ayin regardless. for ex, as israelis that keep one day yom tov in il, we asked a shaila (and dh looked up) about one or two days yom tov in chutz l'aretz. we were not allowed to do any melacha at all the 2nd day, incl in the privacy of the bedroom or somewhere where no one would see. the reason is maras ayin. most likely the psak of being allowed to go into that resteraunt on that occasion, was a leniency based on circumstances, not a blanket across the board ruling that applies to everyone everywhere.

HindaRochel

Mon, May 14 2007, 6:29 am

I wouldn't eat in a non-kosher restaurant or even step in to one if I had a choice. If that was the only bathroom available, or if we were exceedingly hungry/thirsty and it was possible to get sealed kosher food (chips, soda in a can) then I would go in.

However, if nothing was available, and we were in a place where there was no kosher restaurant, but I could purchase something that would be kosher if purchased in a grocery or from the fishmonger, then I would do as a Rav use to do when visiting Japan. Supervise the preperation (clean knife, for example) double wrap in aluminum foil.

For example, I might ask for a potato...wash it, pierce it with a clean fork, wrap it and cook it.

But I would have to really be in a place where food wasn't available...

tweety99

Mon, May 14 2007, 7:28 am

personally id have to be very desperate to even think of walking into a non kosher restaurant! I once did it because that was the only place that I could find a bathroom in the middle of no where..
buying drinks, only if they were in cans or cartons.

amother

Mon, May 14 2007, 9:21 am

I am shocked by this topic and I dont understand how frum women who run afrum life can even think of going into a treif restaurant.it looks to me the same as starting a thread:
how many men did you sleep with before you got married!
It is terrible,shocking and has nothing to do with jewish frum women
It should not be here at imamother!!!!!

GramaNewYork

Mon, May 14 2007, 9:28 am

I voted "nothing" but that doesn't include places that are specifically coffee shops. It's possible that most true coffee shops have a hechser, but I would probably drink coffee in any coffee shop (not a restaurant coffee shop--a coffee shop like Starbucks).

shalhevet

Mon, May 14 2007, 9:29 am

amother wrote:

Posters have already explained that it's asur b/c of maris ayin. Presumably it might be okay to buy a drink in a place that you can't get anything else. Everyone needs to ask their own LOR.

I think you are exaggerating and being insulting to the OP.

MommyLuv

Mon, May 14 2007, 9:29 am

AFAIK, the idea of eating selectively at non-kosher restuarants is very popular in the Conservative circles. I remember co-workers mentioning that they eat at vegetarian restaurants or they'll order only the kosher fish at treif places....

I dont think even those to the left of Modern Orthodoxy would do that, there is just no way you can really keep kosher according to halacha that way. Confused