Food in NON kosher restaurants

Ima2NYM_LTR

Mon, May 14 2007, 7:00 am

I vote drinks only:
Unfortunatly I live in an area with no kosher restraunts. I do not tend to frequent non-kosher places even here, except for a few situations.
1)The rest of my fmaily isnt frum, and every now and then when everyone is in town they all go out toe at. I might stop by for a few minutes to say hi and might get water or a coke (pref in a disposable cup)
2) Ice cream. I will go to friendly's to get ice cream. I used to order it 'to go' even if I was sitting so I'd get disposables, but some friends of ours who have worked in kashrus their whole life said its actually ok to get it in their usual dishes. it is hard for me to go to friendly's though because before I was frum I used to go there a lot (not locally) and get some really tasty meals. if I see someone else order that meal, I get really hungry.
3) I have no problem getting a soda from BJ's or a rest stop on the thruway or a food court. I feel very uncofortable going into a trief restraunt. for any reason (incl. above)

amother

Mon, May 14 2007, 7:00 am

shalhevet wrote:

amother wrote:

I am shocked by this topic and I dont understand how frum women who run afrum life can even think of going into a treif restaurant.it looks to me the same as starting a thread:
how many men did you sleep with before you got married!
It is terrible,shocking and has nothing to do with jewish frum women
It should not be here at Imamother!!!!!

Posters have already explained that it's asur b/c of maris ayin. Presumably it might be okay to buy a drink in a place that you can't get anything else. Everyone needs to ask their own LOR.

I think you are exaggerating and being insulting to the OP.

I might be insulting op but you are insulting the TORAH.
I always thought your posts are so good!you have nice view with halacha but I am disappointed now.
what do you mean?
which chassidishe rebbe or any litfish rov will tell you its ok?
We have torah!we have halacha and it is a big no no!
did your teachers from bais rivka eat in treif restaurant?
Is your husbands rosh yeshivah eat in treif restaurant?
comeon!this is the truth and the only truth!real frum people that keep torah and halacha WILL NOR BE SEEN in treif restaurant!period!

Ima2NYM_LTR

Mon, May 14 2007, 7:09 am

WHAT WOULD YOU DO!

Years ago Dh and I went on a cruise (not a kosher one) with my family. We pre-ordered forzen-kosher meals and took our own picnic-type dishes, etc.
On that cruise we met a Rabbi of some note. I forget his name (I think it may have been Haskal Lookstein), but DH knows of him and said he is a prominet educator in the frum world. he said he had been on many cruises and told us
a) we could ask for them to set aside a seperate set of good dishes for us, to be washed by hand so our plates could match our families. He said we could trust it because it was a customer service oriented busimes and they wouldnt want to get us mad and lose our business (or tips)
b) that bread was ok to eat, since they cooked it in a seperate kitchen away from all other food
c) that salad was ok to eat.

I din't feel comfortable with any of his suggestions though. So what to do? Go with his suggestions or with my gut?

yes, this is moot because it was years ago, but I've always wondered.

(BTW, come the last day of the cruise, Sunday, our busboy tells us he is actually Jewish...and he had waited on us on Shabbos...ooops!)

Marion

Mon, May 14 2007, 7:49 am

Marion

Mon, May 14 2007, 7:50 am

I remember being taken to the baseball game with my school. The rules were very specific: no food could be bought (this was before they started selling kosher hot dogs at the ballpark), EXCEPT DRINKS. Why were drinks OK? Because you could get them in the regular cans.

To this day I don't have a problem walking into a rest stop or going for lunch with colleagues (when I am in chu"l) and buying a sealed soft drink.

BTW, all you ladies who won't do that, what do you drink when you travel? Especially those of you who fly, anywhere since last summer, and you can't take even sealed bottles with you through security? Go thirsty?

Crayon210

Mon, May 14 2007, 7:53 am

MosheDovid'sMom wrote:

Crayon210 wrote:

healthymama wrote:

Quote:

Okay, and I think there are other opinions that something that is halachically maris ayin is assur even if NO ONE is around. Literally no one.

I'm confused, please explain. Maris ayin means that someone will mistakenly conclude that something you are doing is allowed. So if no one, really no one is there, how can anything fall into this category?

The halacha is about doing the thing, not just about being seen.

crayon is correct. maras ayin is maras ayin regardless. for ex, as israelis that keep one day yom tov in il, we asked a shaila (and dh looked up) about one or two days yom tov in chutz l'aretz. we were not allowed to do any melacha at all the 2nd day, incl in the privacy of the bedroom or somewhere where no one would see. the reason is maras ayin. most likely the psak of being allowed to go into that resteraunt on that occasion, was a leniency based on circumstances, not a blanket across the board ruling that applies to everyone everywhere.

Good example! Thank you for bringing it.

yoyosma

Mon, May 14 2007, 7:55 am

amother wrote:

So when you are in Yehupitz on a road trip you pee in your pants and go thirsty when you run out of drinks? If the gas station is attached to a trayf restaurant or you have a potty emergency you go where you can!!! Or would some of you say to travel with plastic bags? How about no more road trips!
For those of you living in Israel or Brooklyn who dont venture out much, how could you possibly understand??

DefyGravity

Mon, May 14 2007, 8:01 am

I've never heard that there's a problem with going to the bathroom at a rest stop. How is it maaris ayin? It's a REST STOP. The very name connotes BATHROOM USING. EVERYONE knows that most people stop and pee at rest stops. Yes, there are restaurants, but if you're seen at a rest stop, people will assume that you needed the restroom, not that you were patronizing the Micky D's there.

shalhevet

Mon, May 14 2007, 8:03 am

amother wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

amother wrote:

I might be insulting op but you are insulting the TORAH.

Would you like to post your unfounded insults under your screename please?

Quote:

I always thought your posts are so good!you have nice view with halacha but I am disappointed now.

Too bad. I'll say what I think is a Torah view whether or not you'll be disappointed in me.

Quote:

what do you mean?
which chassidishe rebbe or any litfish rov will tell you its ok?

AFAIK this discussion is on buying a sealed drink or using the bathroom or something in a treif restaurant, not eating a steak. I'm not sure if maris ayin would always apply. I think under unusual circumstances people should ask a rav. Maybe there are cases when it's okay.

Quote:

We have torah!we have halacha and it is a big no no!

What is? And insulting the OP in a nasty manner isn't a no no??

Quote:

did your teachers from bais rivka eat in treif restaurant?

Since you follow my posts so closely you should know that I didn't learn in Beis Rivka.

Quote:

Is your husbands rosh yeshivah eat in treif restaurant?

Who was speaking about eating?

Quote:

comeon!this is the truth and the only truth!real frum people that keep torah and halacha WILL NOR BE SEEN in treif restaurant!period!

I agree under usual circumstances, but there might be exceptions. And real frum people that keep torah and halacha do not use the tone you are using.

Raisin

Mon, May 14 2007, 8:23 am

I was once talking to a frum woman who said she has a lot of business meetings in resturants. She orders salads and drinks. I was a little surprised but I guess if it is cold, raw, not sharp food that needs no checking (avocado, tomato, cucumber) than it is probably fine. I'm assuming she checked with a Rav first.

I think this is more of an issue for people who live in places with no kosher resturants.

Why would it be wrong

Seraph

Mon, May 14 2007, 8:29 am

I would have no issue getting a soda from a restaurant, doesn't matter what kind of cup its in, because sodas come from soda fountains and they're kosher. And if the cup is cold, halachically it doesn't make a difference if there was treif in the cup before. Especially if its a glass cup. Because hot drinks are anyhow served in seperate cups.
I would get coffees that I know are kosher even in a starbucks without hashgacha, because starbucks coffee in general has a hashgacha. And they don't mix the different coffee pots because it would ruin the taste.
I wouldn't bdavka go into a treif restaurant... but if I had to...

And for all those of you who are so against this maaris ayin of going into a treif restaurant, how about shidduch dating in lounges and getting drinks there? How is that any better?

chen

Mon, May 14 2007, 9:26 am

breslov wrote:

how about shidduch dating in lounges and getting drinks there? How is that any better?

Personally I think it may be worse b/c most people in those lounges are buiying alcoholic beverages. Very few people go to a hotel lounge to buy a cola. (Also those lounges are in hotels, for goodness' sake. That could be mar'is ayin, too. People used to "dan lechaf zechus" may think "they're going to a wedding, a conference, a dinner, a shidduch date" but those whose eye is more jaundiced may delight in speculating why an Orthodox-Jewish-looking unmarried couple are going into a hotel together.)

A lot depends on where you are. In Midtown Manhattan or Skokie it's hard to imagine a good reason to go into a tref place. OTOH if you're in Midtown Nebraska and your bladder is bursting, or it's 110 in the shade, your last beverage was 150 miles ago, you're completely lost and all you see before you is "Joe's Eats--Last Food Before Thruway", you'd be IMO a fool if you didn't stop in, use the facilities and buy a Coke.

healthymama

Mon, May 14 2007, 10:27 am

Quote:

I was very interested to read that it wouldn't be considered maris ayin for a frum woman because no-one can tell she's frum. Is that really true? In Israel everyone can tell you are frum from a mile away, even in winter. Is that an indication of the tzniyus standards amongst other people in EY?

In America, it depends on where you live and whether the people in your area know enough orthodox Jews to recognize that a woman in a long skirt and long sleeves in the summer is a frum person. In New York, New Jersey and other places with large Jewish populations, frum women are noticed as such. In places like the Dakotas or New Mexico or something, many people have never heard of an orthodox Jew and have no idea that a woman wears long skirts, sheitel, etc. They would not have any idea that the person in question is Jewish or frum or anything.

I know people who would order a bowl of uncut straweberries or cherry tomatoes at a treif restaraunt. I don't see much of a problem with it, aside from the maris ayin part. And I certainly think the poster comparing this thread to asking about all the guys that you have slept with needs a reality check.