Food in NON kosher restaurants

TzenaRena

Mon, May 14 2007, 10:31 am

I agree with Defy about the rest stops. They are primarily rest stops, the restaurants are incidental, added and you don't have to walk through them to get to the bathrooms. In New York State, the rest stops are run by the Thruway authority.

HindaRochel

Mon, May 14 2007, 10:44 am

Most rest stops are just that, rest stops, and the restaurants are incidentals...but I have, on a rare and desparate occasion, found the need for the facilities in a McD's or some such place.

I do try and avoid such situations, but we are human.

Mom2Three

Mon, May 14 2007, 10:47 am

chen wrote:

breslov wrote:

how about shidduch dating in lounges and getting drinks there? How is that any better?

Personally I think it may be worse b/c most people in those lounges are buiying alcoholic beverages. Very few people go to a hotel lounge to buy a cola. (Also those lounges are in hotels, for goodness' sake. That could be mar'is ayin, too. People used to "dan lechaf zechus" may think "they're going to a wedding, a conference, a dinner, a shidduch date" but those whose eye is more jaundiced may delight in speculating why an Orthodox-Jewish-looking unmarried couple are going into a hotel together.)

A lot depends on where you are. In Midtown Manhattan or Skokie it's hard to imagine a good reason to go into a tref place. OTOH if you're in Midtown Nebraska and your bladder is bursting, or it's 110 in the shade, your last beverage was 150 miles ago, you're completely lost and all you see before you is "Joe's Eats--Last Food Before Thruway", you'd be IMO a fool if you didn't stop in, use the facilities and buy a Coke.

Ruchel

Mon, May 14 2007, 11:03 am

MommyLuv wrote:

AFAIK, the idea of eating selectively at non-kosher restuarants is very popular in the Conservative circles. I remember co-workers mentioning that they eat at vegetarian restaurants or they'll order only the kosher fish at treif places....

I dont think even those to the left of Modern Orthodoxy would do that, there is just no way you can really keep kosher according to halacha that way. Confused

Just wanting to say that in France the conservative ("liberal" here) would definitely eat even meat. And that I have seen plain Orthodox, not Mo, eating desserts, or veggie restaurant, or fish.

Ruchel

Mon, May 14 2007, 11:08 am

yoyosma wrote:

amother wrote:

I might be insulting op but you are insulting the TORAH.
I always thought your posts are so good!you have nice view with halacha but I am disappointed now.
what do you mean?
which chassidishe rebbe or any litfish rov will tell you its ok?
We have torah!we have halacha and it is a big no no!
did your teachers from bais rivka eat in treif restaurant?
Is your husbands rosh yeshivah eat in treif restaurant?
comeon!this is the truth and the only truth!real frum people that keep torah and halacha WILL NOR BE SEEN in treif restaurant!period!

So when you are in Yehupitz on a road trip you pee in your pants and go thirsty when you run out of drinks? If the gas station is attached to a trayf restaurant or you have a potty emergency you go where you can!!! Or would some of you say to travel with plastic bags? How about no more road trips!
For those of you living in Israel or Brooklyn who dont venture out much, how could you possibly understand??

If I couldn't go to the restroom in non kosher restaurants (a concept I learned about here), I would have the choice when I'm out:
- go home
- drive for half an hour or more to find a kosher place. And the kind of kosher places that are "only" half an hour away don't even have clean toilets. A week ago, I got caught in an interesting LOL

conversation with a shop owner who explained how his toilets were broken, how it smelled and how now he was afraid to go. shock

Ruchel

Mon, May 14 2007, 11:11 am

Raisin wrote:

I think this is more of an issue for people who live in places with no kosher resturants.

Definitely. I know a girl who is converting, so she cannot go and eat non kosher meat for example. Her rav allowed her to have sushis. She doesn't like it, but that's another story...

Crayon210

Mon, May 14 2007, 11:12 am

Marion wrote:

DefyGravity wrote:

Airports have giftshops and kiosks that sell drinks.

Yes, they do, but they also sell all sorts of treif stuff, so wouldn't they fall into the same category as treif restaurants?

No. Because people go into giftshops all the time to buy drinks, or gifts, or other things. Same with grocery stores.

People who go into McDonald's are assumed to be eating food.

Restaurants=food
Giftshops and kiosks=food or drink or non-edible stuff

HindaRochel

Mon, May 14 2007, 11:13 am

YOu know McD's will have a bathroom (or similar places.) Stores; well I have tried them (and the gas stations of course) are iffy...some do some don't. When I know a store will have that is my next bet. Grocery stores often do have, and if you are near a mall, natch go there...they'll have for certain. But when on the road and there's miles before you and miles behind....

Marion

Mon, May 14 2007, 11:15 am

HindaRochel wrote:

On the Trans-Canada highway, all reststops are built into restaurants. I believe that Wendy's/Tim Horton's/Kentucky Fried Chicken currently has the monopoly on those.

And for those who ask why you can't just use the restroom, my husband was once given a psak that using the facilities of a restaurant without paying for (at least) a drink, was stealing from the owners because they still have to pay the utility bills, and the cleaning staff.

Crayon210

Mon, May 14 2007, 11:17 am

Marion wrote:

HindaRochel wrote:

On the Trans-Canada highway, all reststops are built into restaurants. I believe that Wendy's/Tim Horton's/Kentucky Fried Chicken currently has the monopoly on those.

I don't think those fall into the same category as restaurant. Don't know for sure, but that's assumed to be a rest stop.

Quote:

And for those who ask why you can't just use the restroom, my husband was once given a psak that using the facilities of a restaurant without paying for (at least) a drink, was stealing from the owners because they still have to pay the utility bills, and the cleaning staff.

What if you ask them?

amother

Mon, May 14 2007, 11:31 am

Ruchel
I wouldn't think of someone who eats in a treif restaurant as otherdox even if being selective on what they eat.
I thought orthodox is refering to someone who keeps Shabbos and eats kosher. I would think of them as traditional. I know we all do the lable thing, that is just how I would think.

TzenaRena

Mon, May 14 2007, 11:37 am

Quote:

Maybe if the restroom is a small private one inside the restaurant, that makes sense, but it's quite the norm that travelers stop by all the time to use the restroom on any major routes. Often, the traveler will step into the store to buy something, but it's clearly not obligated or expected, otherwise they would have built the restroom in a part of the restaurant that you'd have to go through it to get there.

They don't mind people using it without asking. Their cheshbon is that it's paying for itself by bringing more customers.

HindaRochel

Mon, May 14 2007, 11:41 am

I would think that rest stop restaurants would expect people to come in and use their facilities vs you get stuck somewhere in the city and no stores are open with facilities. Could that be what your Rav was referring to Marion or did he mean all cases where you have used a bathroom?

Ruchel

Mon, May 14 2007, 11:56 am

amother wrote:

Yes but for example, let's say you see a visibly frum person eating in such a restaurant. One with tights and covered hair, or a guy with a black hat and a beard. It used to make me go shock

because I thought only Mo did it, but I have got used to the sight.Not that it is very common, but I see regularly.

yoyosma

Mon, May 14 2007, 12:03 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

I don't understand something. Are restaurants the only places with bathrooms? I've found bathrooms in stores and convenience stores, etc. They're not the nicest (neither are the restaurants', btw), but they do the job.

I was once in Manhattan shopping with my daughter at H&M. She had to go to the bathroom and H&M wouldnt let me use their toilets. The only other place on that block that had a toilet open to the public was Burger King or McDonalds. I probably could have walked 15 minutes to J2, but wasnt willing to risk my daughters dignity or her clothing to take that chance.

As for rest stops on the road, yes, the ones I have seen are usually connected with McDonald's, or some other chain restaurant that you do have to walk through in order to get to the toilets. There is no other way and in that case, yes I walk in!

Ruchel

Mon, May 14 2007, 12:19 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

I find it very hard to believe that a man with a beard and hat would eat out anything besides a drink and maybe something packaged in a non-kosher restaurant. shock

It was the same for me.
I don't feel the need to go into the restaurant and check what he is having although sometimes I am curious, but I know 1 of them who says he gets sushis and desserts, and a few others who say they "eat a few things" but Idon't know what. The sushi-dessert guy is the teacher/head in a kollel in Europe. Yes it is surprising when you are not used to it.