My ds wants a different kippa

amother

Tue, Oct 28 2014, 12:44 pm

My oldest child is ds 12yrs old. He had a hard time with the rebbes in his elementary charedi school and although he is still in a talmud torah where they wear black velvet kippot, he keeps asking for a kippa sruga instead. He plays football with some boys in our neighbourhood and they wear these and he wants to fit in. He is not very interested in religion or learning torah and im afraid hes just on a downward slope.

Do I let him wear a different kippa to that which the rest of our family wear? I fear the other boys will follow.. or am I being silly. Im new to this stage so im abit clueless. Not sure how much control we have over them and what they do. We are in Israel so your kippa makes a statement.

sequoia

Tue, Oct 28 2014, 12:53 pm

I understand you're in Israel and your kippa makes a statement.

Now is the time to talk to him. Show him that you trust him. Allow him to make decisions. Talk to him about different derachim, the strengths and challenges of each, the importance of making choices. Think of it (if it comes to that) as a lateral rather than downward move.

I don't mean telling a 12 year old kid, "If you wear a knitted kippa you have to go in the army." Talk to him in general, in confidential tones, about choices and the responsibilities that come with them. He will appreciate your trust in him and your taking him seriously.

amother

Tue, Oct 28 2014, 1:24 pm

I mostly agree with those above. However, does he want to wear the kippah srugah after school? Because if not, does he realize that in school he's going to have a serious problem?

Is he asking to go to a different school? It is really time to have a talk about different communities and their hashkafos.

DS was in mainstream Chareidi yeshivos in US but came this close [.] to being expelled in both elementary, HS and Bais Medrash (was suspended for a few days each time). We sat him down & told him, if he is not happy learning, we will totally support him in anything he chooses. (He is a brilliant kid and could be a nuclear physicist or a rocket scientist.) What we care about is that he be a happy, productive person who is sincerely oveid Hashem and shomer mitzvos. The details are up to him.

I have to say it was a relief that he said he appreciates our support but he wants to continue on our family's derech.

But I think it's very important for a child to know that his parents love him for who he is, even if he opts to be somewhat different from them. The alternative, conflict, fights, and losing the relationship, may mean a child throws out the whole Torah chas vesholom if he is told, "be like us or you are worthless."

The most important thing to remember is that it's not 'this particular issue'. What counts is to keep a good relationship with your children, and don't have an argument about anything that you don't have to.

rachel91

Tue, Oct 28 2014, 1:26 pm

My opinion is, that you wouldn't gain anything, by not allowing him to wear a different kippa. His feelings would still be the same, but mixed with resentment towards you.
I think you and your family should support him during this time, maybe ask him, why he doesn't like his school/ learning anymore, maybe something is/ was going on, that you are not aware of.

Tue, Oct 28 2014, 2:02 pm

momX4 wrote:

I would allow it as a play kippa, just like kids wear baseball caps when they play sports.

This sounds like a good idea. You're not stopping him, but setting guidelines.

And now may be a good time to wake up and see what you can do for him - something may be bothering him. Perhaps work at encouraging some friendships with kids whose influence you'd rather him gain?

Disclaimer: my oldest is 3. But it isn't such a long time since I've been a teenager myself Smile

Don't suffocate him, but if he was really being rebellious, he wouldn't be asking you about the yarmulka. This sounds like a mixed up kid who is asking for help.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Oct 28 2014, 2:34 pm

monseychick wrote:

But then you won't be able to do good shiduchim for the rest of your family. And your social status will go way down.

Tell he can only wear it in private. Think a sealed underground shelter.

But he can't humiliate the family..

Are you actually serious?
I really hope not.

OP, I feel like you have to pick your battles, you know what I mean? And I would definitely not make this one one of those battles.
In REAL LIFE, a kippa is a kippa is a kippa.
Dont make this an issue or he may even want to just take the whole kippa idea and take it off his head.

Ill give it to you the other way. My father wears a kippa sruga. My brother, when he was younger, wanted to wear a velvet black one (like our grandfather did) so my parents said fine. No problem. And he grew out of it. Its really not a big deal.
Remember a kippa is a kippa is a kippa.

amother

Tue, Oct 28 2014, 4:06 pm

op here. I agree that making an issue out of it will make it worse. He wants to wear it when playing football outside with the other kids, so that he will fit in. We are new here so I guess he is figuring things out. He likes his school actually, but he just isn't interested in being charedi.

Just spoke to my husband and he is so against the whole thing like, if he would wear a different kippah then he would go to boarding school. Maybe not as dramatic but my husband is Israeli and knows the significance of which kippah you wear and he made the choice to move from sruga to black velvet, so he sees it as going down. I just don't agree… Oish, parenting this age is so hard..

Jewishmom8

Tue, Oct 28 2014, 4:19 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I think your right and also not right :-)
its a kippa that can get some kids get kicked out of some schools so it actually could be a real issue for this person. but I think that if this isnt that kids derech then thats fine too.

imasinger

Tue, Oct 28 2014, 4:21 pm

So, this issue is about more than your DS. It's about your DS and your DH, and maybe you, and identity, and family.

Kids have an unerring way of finding these hot button issues.

I think the first step is for you and your DH to speak to a rav and/or therapist, without DS there, and come up with a unified approach.

And maybe, if your rav tells your DH to let DS wear the kipa sruga, you won't get stuck in the middle.

mandksima

Tue, Oct 28 2014, 4:22 pm

OP, your 12 year old will be much older quicker than you think and will choose his own derech in serving Hashem. You don't want him turned off completely because he feels his parents/father think a certain kippah is more important than trusting his decision/accepting his feelings. You should definitely have a talk with your dh over this. Kids don't necessarily want the same lifestyle they were brought up in and it will soon be between your bar mitvah boy and Hashem.

I see so many simchot in Israel where a high percentage of the family is one way religiously but then you have a few obviously different religious-wise mixed in and in the families where everyone accepts each other but are very different, it is so much nicer to see. It makes me happier to see it mixed a bit rather than everyone all one way as usually it means some are just doing it to fit in. There is hardly a chance that everyone really sees their serving Hashem in the same exact way as everyone else in their extended family.

A different kippah should not be seen as going up/down but more like finding a certain niche where they feel like they can become close to Hashem the best. Making a big deal out of it is a bad idea especially because you don't want it to lead to no kippah.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Oct 28 2014, 4:22 pm

Jewishmom8 wrote:

But would it be better if that kid ends up not wearing a kippa at all? I dont think so.

Look, this is not my derech. I am MO. I dont care what kippa a son of mine would wear (I have one daughter Wink

) gosh, my husband wears a leather black one DAVKA because of this. As he says, its something that covers my head, thats all it is.

Its s sad that a kippa hs become more than just what it is supposed to be.

And to be kicked out of school because you wear the "wrong" kippa?

Jewishmom8

Tue, Oct 28 2014, 4:29 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I totally agree with you. she should be happy that there is one on there.
thats why I told her I think she should let him wear it.
and by the way I think a kid could be kicked out by just wearing it for an afternoon here and there. very sad. but it is what it is and I understand the struggle that she may be faced with.
keep your eye on the prize op! that is a nice good frum boy with any kind of kippa who always knew his mom loved and understood him.

DrMom

Tue, Oct 28 2014, 4:44 pm

monseychick wrote:

This discussion, and esp your dh's reaction, is absurd.