A powerful speech by Rebbetzin Twersky

asmileaday

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 6:57 pm

If someone's wig is 25" long and she makes the sacrifice and cuts it to 24", will that solve the tznius issue?! Me thinks not.
So the point is the sacrifice, not the end result of everyone looking more tznius. (Or else if the goal is to give this speech again every couple of months till the wigs are slowly cut to chin length.)
So why not focus on encouraging people to sacrifice for Hashem wherever they feel is necessary, instead of telling them exactly where to make the sacrifices?
And I don't wear long wigs my longest one barely touches my shoulder. So my unease with these kind of declarations do not come from a place of guilt.

PinkFridge

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 7:01 pm

asmileaday wrote:

I think there's some value to the "every inch counts" meme. It's not my challenge either but hearing testimonials, virtually and IRL, the effort that goes into even the inch of change is enough to get the person making the change to think and evaluate. And wherever that ends, whether with a bob or duty length skirt (which are of course the ultimate goals in tznius Twisted Evil

) (but seriously, YKWI'm getting at) genuine growth is a good thing, even if it's not dramatic.

amother

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 7:09 pm

One of the reasons why head coverings are so powerful is because they cover our heads where are brains (bina yesaira) are. So when a woman is wearing the correct head covering it affects her whole thinking process about tznius. It affects how she thinks about everything! This is one of the many beautiful concepts in the unique princess!

Notsobusy

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 7:10 pm

asmileaday wrote:

You're right that a 1 inch cut on most sheitels is not going to make much difference.

But as far as making sacrifices for Hashem, I don't think that's what Hashem wants from us. The point is not the sacrifice, the point is the halachah. So if I totally believe that my sheitel is not too long, and I take it to my Rav and ask him(I know, I know, absolutely wrong) and he agrees, then what is the point in cutting my sheitel. Hashem does not ask for sacrifices - unless you're Avraham Avinu. He wants us to follow halacha.

amother

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 7:18 pm

Actually, judiasms history is full of people's sacrifices. Hashem wants us to do action out of love and to go above and beyond for him is very precious to him.

Every inch matters. Halacha or not, it's an improvement in modesty. We should do this for Hashem and for rebbetzin Twersky- a holy rebbetzin who just lost her husband. There is a tremendous power in women uniting for modesty.

amother

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 7:32 pm

happysmile1 wrote:

I too would like to know which Rabbaim hold that long wigs are okay. Not to speak loshon hora- I'm genuinely curious. I have only heard otherwise.

Where are the sources from all the women who are saying that long wigs are okay? I would love to know (I'm not saying this in a negative way).

I just recently heard a shiur by Rabbi Wachsman and he slammed the wigs that are long and provocative. He said that girls are taught tznius throughout high school and then get married and are socially pressured to buy long wigs. It's a sheker.

Again it's not about g-d forbid judging anyone. It's about discussing if something is wrong or not.

Anyways, Rebbetzin Twersky obviously felt long wigs need to be cut. She is not a Rav but she is a very holy Rebbetzin. I have yet to hear a Rebbetzin tell women to make their wigs longer!

Again, follow your own rav. The only reason why I even posted that my rav holds this way, is to help people see the other side. My rav would not appreciate his name being posted on imamother. I also do not feel it necessary to promote his name or his views online. My point was to let people know that not every rav holds like your rav, and to allow others to have another reason to stop judging others unfavorably.
I appreciate that you would like to know. If I was in your position I would want to know as well, just to verify the truth of the poster. If you don't believe me, that is fine as well. I hold my rav and his preferences in higher esteem than the opinions of those reading my anonymous posts on imamother.

amother

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 7:34 pm

amother wrote:

The tragedy happened in shul during shmona esrei. I took on myself something very hard and related to tefilla. Not to look art a computer or phone before leavening. Most days I'm successful.

What a beautiful kabalah. If I cut my sheitel any shorter it'll be a boycut, so with apologies to rebbetzin twerski, I think this is one resolution I will rather adopt.

Wish me luck...

amother

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 7:45 pm

Going off on a tangent here, perhaps.

I just saw some Youtube videos of tri-state area weddings. The mothers sheitels looked just as attractive and zexy, or more zexy, than the Kallah's hair. Mothers and fathers at these weddings are the creme de la creme of frum society, presidents and chairmen of Shuls and Nsheis. These Sheitels are definitely noticed, if not by the Rabbonim of the Shuls, certainly the Rebbitzens notice, and by the way Ive seen some very zexy Rebbitzens in the tri-state area of of Agudah type shuls, by far not "moooooodern" in any other way!

Youre all getting all steamed up, while many well known Rebbitzens are so zexy themselves, they could appear in magazines!

It all comes back to one thing. Some of the "role models" we have, who with their clothing, makeup and sheitels, are looking to be zexy themselves.

happysmile1

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 7:45 pm

Okay, I think that a major point needs to be clarified for all those women that are interested.

According to halacha a sheitel is a heter- it is a leniency, it is not the halachically preferred head covering. Anyone could go to their Rav and ask them this and they will be shocked to find this out. Obviously, there is a heter for a sheitel but it is a big kulah. Rabbi Wachsman will be the first to tell you that a tichel is mehudar in tznius and halacha. Most of the poskim actually forbade wigs, only one opinion actually allowed it

When the Rema allowed a wig (based on the pri migadim), it didn't mean a wig that was natural looking. He gave a heter for a wig that looked like horse hair. The Rabbaim in later times allowed the nicer looking wigs (those that are a bit nicer than horse hair!) because of decrees against the Jews to not wear tichels and because the generation keep getting weaker and weaker. But it is not the ideal.

Jewish women wore tichels for thousands of years. These beautiful wigs are all new to our generation. they are not the halachically ideal covering.

If you do your own research you will find this all out. Ask any knowledgeable Rav, I asked many and they all told me this! Study Rav Ovadia Yosef's teshuvah- it's not just for Sephardim, he writes how most Ashkenaz and Sephardic Rabbaim assured sheitels. A tichel was never assured.

Rabbaim actually told me that they don't mention any of this because they don't feel women (and their husbands) can handle this info. They are happy if women even just cut their wigs to a more modest length (which you see already causes an uproar). They have other reasons for not talking about it.

But for anyone interested in the subject it is so fascinating!

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 10:14 pm

happysmile1, not everyone goes according to your rav.
Not everyone goes according to my rav.
You cant outright say that wigs are assur as so many women do wear them and I am sure that those women found out that it is not assur, at all.
And a wig as a heter? I am sure that that is not universaly true.

I dont come from a community where women wear wings. I am in the MO world. I cover with a hat or mitpachat, but I also do not cover every inch of my hair. And I learned, from MY rabbanim that that is fine.

Every Jew follows THEIR derech. You cant generalize and say that it is wrong. For you maybe, but not for shprintzi down the road.

rosenbal

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 10:40 pm

Not so many amothers here, I believe. In fact, seems like MOST posts on this thread are written by one (agenda driven) person. Hmmm...

Yes, I think some shaitels are too long for my taste. Yes, mine are too long for other people's taste. Yes, I think Reb Twersky can speak to her Hadar crowd as she sees fit. I am not a Hadar type and agree with an earlier poster about being able to accept yhe general idea of taking upon myself a personal sacrifice/kabalah that's correct for my own personal avodas Hashem (which by definition can't be the same action for everyone!)

What I don't like is the self righteous attitude of one poster (sometimes hiding as amother) preaching to everyone. You know there's a wide variety of people here, right? Different backgrounds, different hashkafos, different levels of observance. Maybe a speech to the alumnae of one seminary can be more "one size fits all"...but why would anyone think it's a good idea on a heterogenous community like imamother? Scratching Head

I'm not even sure what point you think you're making besides turning people off.

I went to BY and it was always such preachiness that would make me want to davka do the opposite of what I was told! And I wasn't even a rebellious type. I hope things are better when my DD hits high school age. I really am a fan of being tznius and want her to be tzanua (inside and outside) but I hope the methodology of the education has changed Rolling Eyes

And I hope you're not her teacher.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 11:07 pm

amother wrote:

Women are too focused on what the wigs look like for vanity reasons, not for the actual mitzvah of kisui rosh. if they understood why they are covering their hair they wouldn't be making their wigs look so nice!

there is NO halacha that states that you must cover your head to make yourself look ugly. Some women look ravishing in certain mitpachot as well. So some women want to look beautiful in a long wig.
Why does covering ones hair have to equal not looking so nice? I never understand this.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 11:20 pm

amother wrote:

Woman who wear very long shaitels are being nichsel other men and how dare u do it and be nichsel our husbands and almost force our husbands to gaze at u..

If this post is serious (I really cant tell anymore) then I am absolutely floored.
Amother, men have to be big boys. Men have to be able to walk the streets and control themselves. And "force our husbands to gaze at u"? Are you serious? First of all, if you think that a long wig is the worst thing that a frum man will be seeing as he walks on the streets, you are sourly mistaken. And as I said, they have to be big boys. Grow up and figure out how to walk the streets of wherever you live (general you) without having problems with women with long wigs. Rolling Eyes

marina

Thu, Jan 01 2015, 11:22 pm

After reading this thread, I accept upon myself to get a brazillian every month. I encourage all of you to join with me and then we can all cut a few inches together at the same time all around the world, in unity. This will be a very powerful spiritual event, so bring your sifrei tehillim - we will storm the heavens with our hairless bodies!

HindaRochel

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 1:12 am

Can we snip a bit off our skirts?
Honestly, can we stop channeling Hashem and actually listen to what was commanded?
NOTHING in the Torah about the length of sheitels. That is between a woman and her conscious with advice from her Rav.
Not anyone else, be it Rabbi, Rebbetzin, self-proclaimed seer, or a person who did the deed and some miraculous something occurred or whatever.

If you want to have a snip in gesunteheit. I don't think it makes you a better Jew.

Heyaaa

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 2:07 am

dbw wrote:

We say every day in davening Talmud Torah k'neged kulum.The Chazon Ish once said that tznius is the parallel for women since they don't have the chiyuv to learn. So it's a major thing to consider. An old rebbetzin once told me, before WWII many women did not cover their hair at all. One of the first things the Nazis did when Jewish women came into to the camps was to shave off their hair. I'm not saying we can make cheshbonos here but she pointed out that the midah kneged midah seems pretty stark here.

They also shaved off men's beard and payos. Maybe it was bad the men had beards and payos.

Heyaaa

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 2:10 am

amother wrote:

Only after Chava sinned was she required to cover her hair.

Obviously it's very important.

How we dress does affect the klal. Everything we do affects everyone else.

Rebbetzin Twersky decided that this was what she was asking women to do. If you don't want to do it don't do it. If you want to work on other areas work on other areas. This is what she felt was important right now- we should respect that.

She covered her hair or she had to braid it herself?

Anyway you make it sound like her whole body was covered and only her hair was exposed until that point.

Heyaaa

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 2:12 am

amother wrote:

Actually, while I don't know if Rebbetzin Twersky was making any connection between what happened and sheitels, there have been Gedolim in the past that have connected immodest wigs with illness.

Rav Kudari used to say midah kaneged midah- who wears wigs? immodest actresses, religious women and children who unfortunately become ill and lose their hair. I would NEVER say this, I'm just quoting.

I also recently saw a film by someone named Rav Ovadia who came to the states from Israel to promote tznius and modest headwear. He showed a pasuk in Yeshaya where it states that when the women were immodest an illness of baldness spread among the people.

Again I would NEVER say these things from my own opinion.

But we do know that all our actions have consequences.

I know a huge tzadekes who was extremely careful with covering her hair with only the most tznius scarves. She died last year after 3/4 year battling cancer.