A powerful speech by Rebbetzin Twersky

Notsobusy

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 10:21 am

PinkFridge wrote:

I agree with you that ideally people should ask, what does halacha demand of me according to my understanding of halacha (with the guidance of rabbanim, educators, mentors, etc.). If we all did this consistently Moshiach would be here.
But we don't. We have our struggles, and each victory we have, no matter how seemingly minor, is precious to G-d and impacts us positively. So it's not just about cutting an inch at a time, or taking a hemline down an inch at a time (and before I get jumped on for bringing in hemlines, I'm referring to women who wear short skirts and feel a disconnect because it's not in line with what they've been taught), it's about the inner growth and thinking that happens too.

You are definitely right. I just don't understand why "everyone" should sacrifice and cut an inch. If I believe a skirt has to be 4 inches passed the knee, and mine is, then even if lengthening it to 5 inches is a sacrifice to me, it's not a sacrifice for Hashem. Why is 5 inches better than 4 inches? Same here, if my sheitel is not too long, what is the difference if I cut it? Why would that be a sacrifice for Hashem, even if it feels like a sacrifice to me.

Chayalle

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 10:47 am

glutenless wrote:

yes, this is exactly how I feel about sheitels, too. Why the more inches the better?

I would not feel beautiful (and I don't mean attractive by that, and I have been taught that a Jewish woman is supposed to look beautiful) in a really short wig.

I may get bashed for this but adding - I have seen short wigs cut in styles that are also quite attracting and provocative. It's not just length - it's a complete look that determines whether a style is refined looking.

PinkFridge

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 11:15 am

glutenless wrote:

But 5" isn't better than 4, according to what you're saying. She's not telling girls to go shorter than halachically necessary, just to do some serious introspection and if they're pushing the envelope to stuff things back into said envelope.

amother

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 11:18 am

dancingqueen wrote:

See this kind of post just sounds like sour grapes to me - in other words, if I'm not allowed to wear a long wig, you shouldn't be able to either. Don't look better than me!

It is part of how tznius is portrayed in some schools. I don't blame people for keeping that mentality.
My school portrayed tznius in that way.
We were taught that if we dress looking too good, and a guy looks at us, we get gehenom. We can be causing shalom bayit issues. The previous poster may have gone to one of these schools and just applied these concepts to the yenem, instead of doing personal soul searching.

relish

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 11:22 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Because of this post I went back and read op without the responses involved. I read it with more open eyes, and I agree with what you were saying.
I took an important lesson from this.
I learned not to take what people say out of context and present it to others who may only hear some of the words and not the underlying message.
Ty pf, and Ty op for teaching that to me albeit unintentionally.

happybeingamom

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 11:28 am

Chayalle wrote:

This is the truth!

debsey

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 11:35 am

Chayalle wrote:

I agree. That's why a message like "search your heart, are you truly comfortable with your level of tznius?" is so much more effective than any specific mandate.

On the other hand, I know that hearing certain calls for change have sensitized me to things that I hadn't noticed as problematic. For example, when I was in high school, we had a teacher who wouldn't stop talking about how a certain type of denim skirt that was in style then gave a very non-refined impression. I used to make fun of it - what does she mean? Denim is so sturdy! Denim is so practical! etc. But eventually, her point seeped in- it's not the material denim that's the problem, it's the whole look of that skirt, which did give a not so refined impression, and eventually, I got rid of those skirts. I don't think I would have been sensitized to it had she not talked about it.

happysmile1

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 11:48 am

Rebbetzin Twersky didn't say how many inches. She just said the more inches the bigger the korbon. She left it open for women to decide how much they feel is appropriate to cut. With skirt length because the knees are supposed to be covered at all times according to Halacha many gedolim have come out saying that 4 inches is appropriate because at that length it's unlikely for the knees to show in any position. It's kind of like a geder. In Israel mishmor hatorah came out saying that skirt lengths should be midcalf (which is more like 6 inches).

In Lakewood, Rav Matisyahu Solomon spoke recently and said that wigs shouldnt be longer than shoulder length.

eschaya

Fri, Jan 02 2015, 1:52 pm

amother wrote:

Rebbetzin Twersky wanted this message spread to all women. It was a message for everybody.

We are supposed to be united in serving HaShem- not United in doing the wrong thing. We are supposed to love each other and respect each other's differences as long as they are within the guidelines of Halacha and the Torah.

Here is the message that R' Twersky and the other women gave to klal yisrael. Note that it does not include your caveat to love each other only "as long as they are within the guidelines of Halacha and the Torah", especially since you are not the ultimate arbiter of what is Halacha and Torah.

"We turn to acheinu Bnei Yisrael wherever they may be. Let us all come together to increase the rachamei Shomayim shown to us! Let us all accept upon ourselves that we will increase love and brotherhood – between each person and his fellow, between community and community, between major group and major group.

Our request is that every individual should see to it to accept upon himself on Erev Shabbos Parshas Toldos, to sanctify this coming Shabbos as a day of ahavas chinam. It should be a day that we refrain from all kinds of divisive conversation, lashon hora, and rechilus.

This will be a great uplift to the souls of the heads of our families who were slaughtered for the holiness of His Holy Name.

May Hashem look from above, see our affliction, wipe away our tears, and say, “Enough!” to our sorrow.
May we merit to see the arrival of Moshiach Tzidkeinu, speedily in our days – Amen, Amen.

Signed with a broken and crushed heart:
Chayah Levine and family
Breina Goldberg and family
Yaakovah Kupinsky and family
Bashi Twersky and family"

Secondly, since when was her speech to Hadar alumni "to be spread to all women"? Do you have proof? Methinks she gave a personal speech to her own talmidos, many of whom appreciate this kind of chinuch plus feel an extra closeness to the tragedy and want to take on additional chumros. As evidenced above, she knows how to make a public pronouncement, yet she didn't do so on the topic of sheitel length because it is probably not the statement she wants directed to the general public of religious women worldwide.

Unless you are Rb Twersky's personal publicist, please do not misconstrue her words nor use her speeches for a personal agenda.

shabbatiscoming

Sat, Jan 03 2015, 3:04 pm

amother wrote:

Ladies your married to your husband theres no point of walking around w long s/xy wigs and luring other men

Im sorry, what????? I dont even wear wigs, but your thought process makes no sense. Women are not getting dressed every morning in order to lure men. They dress how they dress and put on their heads what they do so that they themselves feel good in whatever they are wearing.

Why do you women who believe that all other married women are out to get your husbands? Im sorry and I have said this before, but men have to be big boys and if a s-xy wig is going to be bad news for any man, well, then I suggest they dont leave their homes. ever! Rolling Eyes

Love all Jews

Sat, Jan 03 2015, 8:12 pm

I am Chassidish and I am accustomed to hearing such speeches in my specific surroundings. I do take this topic seriously, BUT I am bothered by what the OP is saying here. I don't think this is something to be addressed on imamother. There was enough said on these pages, and I don't have anything to add. I am bothered with this whole "husband / men" discussion here... When I dress tzinius, It is for my own self respect!
I understand where you are coming from OP, and I am not criticizing. Please understand that there is different ways people learn about tzinius. This way scares me, it takes ME out of the picture.

Love all Jews

Sat, Jan 03 2015, 8:19 pm

marina wrote:

After reading this thread, I accept upon myself to get a brazillian every month. I encourage all of you to join with me and then we can all cut a few inches together at the same time all around the world, in unity. This will be a very powerful spiritual event, so bring your sifrei tehillim - we will storm the heavens with our hairless bodies!

Marina, please change your profile picture when you are done with the Brazilian! I can't imagine what you look like without that beard!

happysmile1

Sat, Jan 03 2015, 9:31 pm

Gut voch,

Sigh- I never said sheitels are assur.
I stated that there is a heter for a sheitel, the shiltei giborim allowed a wig in the "chatzer" which certain rabbaim interpreted as public courtyard. Most others interpreted "chatzer" to mean private courtyard, therefore they assured the wig. Rav Ovadia yosef proved in a sefer that the shiltei giborim only allowed a wig in a private courtyard and he therefore assured sheitels- especially as rov poskim over the past hundreds of years assured wigs, including giants like the Chasam Sofer and the Vilna Goan and many others.

But there is heter for Ashkenazim- the Rema allowed wigs based on the shiltei giborim. But the heter that was given was for wigs that were very wiggy. And it was never considered the halachically preferred head covering. It was a kulah.

It's really complicated- Rav Ovadia Yosef goes through the whole history of the "peah nachris" in his teshuvah on wigs. It's incredibly informative for people from all backgrounds- he was brilliant in Halacha.

My point in stating all this was to show how a wig is a heter, it's not a halachic lechatchilah. It also has evolved in to something that it was never meant to be. It was supposed to be a head covering that looked like a head covering, it was never supposed to be an exact imitation of ones natural hair. Otherwise it defeats the purpose.

If one reads quotes by Rav shlomo zalman Auerbach one can understand a little bit more about it. Rav Auerbach once said to Rav Dan Segal- they cover their hair and then make every effort to make it look uncovered, to me this is a loathesome thing. There are a lot more quotes by gedolim about wigs - there's even a sefer on it called "keter vekavod" (2 volumes). It has all the views and opinions of many famous gedolim on wigs.

But I really am not writing this info to start a war about sheitels. I naively thought that women might be interested in hearing about all this, especially as it is such an important mitzvah. It was not my intention to make women feel defensive or to insult anyone. Please forgive me if I did. I guess I personally was very upset when I discovered a lot of this history cuz I got married, bought the customary two beautiful wigs and didn't think about it at all. When I discovered all this I was blown away and a little surprisedthat it's not taught to women at all.

Im not trying to tell women what to do at all about wigs- but for anyone whose interest was piqued by all this I recommend doing your own research!