Preschool director washed girls mouth with soap!!

ILOVELIFE

Wed, Jun 06 2007, 4:04 pm

One thing bothers me though. In schools today, words that were not considered bad in my day are considered AWFUL now (as though the kids don't use worse words)

One kid I know got punished for saying the words stupid and crazy. I don't understand that. Sure, it's not refined or complimentary but a BAD word!!!!!!! shock

Ruchel

Wed, Jun 06 2007, 9:20 pm

mimivan wrote:

jewishmamathebest wrote:

This is so sickening, I can tell you that here in the UK it is totally illegal to touch a child, never mind forcing soapy water down a childs throat. Here the police would be called in and the woman would be banded from teaching children. .

I read in another thread that there is a cheder in London where the kids sometimes go to the hospital with broken bones...so they must be getting away with abuse there too...

I am surprised at the broken bones, this is SO extreme and horrible... but I see the situation is still the same in chederim as in my grandfathers' times Sad

Ruchel

Wed, Jun 06 2007, 9:23 pm

amother wrote:

Hey, come on!

Soap these days is not made of lye and is not poisonous.

I bet that little girl will never used dirty language again!!

I think kids these days use threats of abuse as a way to do and get whatever they want! That's why we have such terrible tznius/drug/etc... problems in the frum world today nobody would have dreamed of a few generations ago!

Somebody finally put their foot down and might have saved this girl's neshama. Good for her!

I agree that it's crazy how everything is abuse today, b'h the trend hasn't started in France... is soap abuse, well I would need to know the quantity, the child's reaction... but it's still bad. My great grandma used pepper, at least it wasn't toxic... and now my grandma and mom have a very eidel vocabulary... I don't plan on using this method though.

Ruchel

Wed, Jun 06 2007, 9:25 pm

chestnut wrote:

my early elementary school teacher used to beat our hands/fingers with a ruler when we didn't write neatly/nicely! did it change our handwriting? mine is as sloppiest as it gets!

Well... I had a very old school first grade teacher who did that kind of things. And her pupils were known for their nice writing and great spelling. I still think it is thanks to her that I skipped second grade and won a spelling contest.

Ruchel

Wed, Jun 06 2007, 9:31 pm

ILOVELIFE wrote:

Many of us who did get these 'poisonous' and 'horrible' punishments surrvived very nicely. And there are one of 2 reasons for this:

1. We felt generally safe and knew the punishment was given in moderation and not meanly and knew it was coming and justified. In other words, I don't think my parents or teachers ever 'shoved it down my throat or poured tons. It was done calmly, quickly and in moderation.

2. I think we were built to tolerate more than kids today. I don't know waht's the chkn adn what's the egg-- but we handled life better than many kids today and maybe it's cuz we weren't treated with kid gloves all the time. And trust me, I'm not advocating beating or a/thing like that Ch'V.[/list]

I agree. Today some kids don't even tolerate a NO. I asked my parents, and they don't remember that I did those "crises" some kids do in shops, when their parents refuse to buy something. If it was no, it was no. I was the "spoilt kid" according to many, but now when they see what the next generation is doing, they all think I was such a good girl.

GAMZu

Wed, Jun 06 2007, 10:32 pm

You don't have to hurt your child to teach him to behave! I am definitely not afraid to say "no." My child will never have a tantrum in a store if I refuse to buy something, unless I always allow it and suddenly say no without explaining to him what and why.
I am for positive discipline. Physical and painful punishment is for weak parents who are afraid of their children, IMO. They try to prove they're bigger and stronger. It takes a much greater person to discipline and teach with love and encouragement.

greenfire

Wed, Jun 06 2007, 10:43 pm

GAMZu wrote:

amen!!!

ILOVELIFE

Thu, Jun 07 2007, 1:01 pm

GAMZu wrote:

Great post!! However, I think many have taken positive to an extreme.

happymom

Thu, Jun 07 2007, 9:22 pm

little kids are people too and sometimes adults forget that. we wouldnt like if someone just grabbed something away from us, or critisized us in public, or yelled at us for something we did wrong! they should be treated with the same respect anyone would want. when kids are treated that way, they actually behave alot better and are motivated to do whats right. (althoyugn of course they dont always because they are kids and like to test us, and to explore etc..... but hey we arent perfect either!

It seems to me that some ppl think kids are born knowing what to do. they arent. kids are good, and they just need to be guided. and even when we tell them something it takes time and practice to get it right! for example, when a child hits indtead of just saying dont hit each time, a young child needs to be told WHAT they SHOULD do! that will help them LEARN. like, " when we are upset we use words, not our hands.. can u tell me why Hashem gave us hands, what are they for..."? or, "what do u think we should do when someone takes a toy away from us, or when we want something someone else has...." they usually come up with the right solution and then do it! I tried this many times and eventually the kid learns to use words and to say how he is feeling without being physical or yelling because you have taught them how to channel thier negative emotions in a positive way.

southernbubby

Fri, Jun 08 2007, 10:06 am

I do want to add here that someone above mentioned putting pepper in a child's mouth as punishment. There was a child who died when the mother laced her milk with pepper as punishment. The pepper clogged her trachea and she suffocated.

Ruchel

Fri, Jun 08 2007, 2:08 pm

How can you suffocate? Pepper is tiny, like salt or something... b'h my mom never suffocated... it was not put in her food, just directly in her mouth. She says it's not so bad and taught her the bad taste of bad words lol
she never did it to me though - and now I have a filthy mouth lol

chen

Mon, Jun 11 2007, 2:25 pm

Even in the absence of an allergy, straight pepper can cause severe inflammation and swelling of mucous membranes, which can constrict the throat. a grain or two of pepper wouldn't do that, but a quarter of a teaspoon of straight, fresh ground pepper swallowed by a small child...yes, it could happen. Pepper in milk? hmm...what kind of pepper? If it was one of the fiery ones like habaneras or scotch bonnet, it could have done the same thing.

chen

Mon, Jun 11 2007, 2:34 pm

HindaRochel wrote:

Chen, there was a case, at least one, where parents washed their child's mouth out with soap, regular handsoap, and the child died. Now, it was awhile back and things might have changed, but it always made me leery after that (There also may have been more to the story than that and I just didn't know). But I just wouldn't want to take the chance.

If you saw that it was a hoax, please could you either pm me the link or post it here? I do want to know and I don't want to be alarmist.

HR, IMO the onus is upon you to show documentation of the story. There must be more to the story if it's true. perhaps the child struggled and the parents accidentally broke his neck while attempting to subdue him. . Or perhaps they forced so much liquid down his throat that it went down the wrong way and he actually drowned ( a popular means of torture and execution during the Inquisition, BTW. Pour water down the victim's throat and hold his nose shut. When he can no longer hold his breath, he will involuntarily inhale, aspirating water into his lungs and drowning on dry land.) Or perhaps as southernbubby suggests, they used bar soap and the child actually choked on a piece. In all such cases, the parents killed a child while attempting to wash his mouth out with soap--but the child did not die of soap poisoning. The cause of death was a broken neck, or aspiration of fluid into the lungs, or choking. Not soap poisoning.