Ashkenazi Brains | Imamother

Motek

Sun, Jun 19 2005, 1:09 pm

from a New York Times article by Nicholas Wade, published June 3, 2005 (definitely NOT politically correct!)

Quote:

A University of Utah study suggests that higher intellectual ability amongst the Ashkenazi Jews of central and northern Europe is the result of natural selection for enhanced intellectual ability. The study says the selective force was the restriction of Ashkenazim in medieval Europe for about 900 years to occupations that required more than usual mental agility.

In describing what they see as the result of the Ashkenazic mutations, the researchers cite the fact that Ashkenazi Jews make up 3 percent of the American population but won 27 percent of its Nobel prizes, and account for more than half of world chess champions. They say that the reason for this unusual record may be that differences in Ashkenazic and northern European I.Q. are not large at the average but become more noticeable at the extremes; for people with an I.Q. over 140, the proportion is 4 per 1,000 among northern Europeans but 23 per 1,000 with Ashkenazim.

Motek

Sun, Jun 19 2005, 2:41 pm

sigh

just came across an article from Am Echad which is meant to do "damage control" because of the Utah research

the article's point is to downplay the results of the research, and even to say that it's dangerous

the author says brains are not where it's at, Jewishly speaking, which in one sense is true - since G-d loves us no matter our IQ and it's our sincerity and mitzva observance that matter

but there are countless statements about chochma in the Written and Oral Torah and the author knows that the Jews who were looked up to and made our leaders were most often the "iluyim" - the Torah geniuses

the author takes a defensive stand on what was presented as objective research, apparently fearful of the possible backlash to that research

Motek

Sun, Jun 19 2005, 2:58 pm

Quote:

The theory was proposed in a paper published in Cambridge University's Journal of Biosocial Science that sought to better understand the prevalence of certain genetic disease among Ashkenazic Jews.

fascinating no? that there's a link between genetic diseases and certain advantages

chavamom

Sun, Jun 19 2005, 4:51 pm

I read this article last week and it's really amazing. I remember years ago hearing Rebbetzin Heller speak and she claimed that the reason behind the 'Jewish brains' were that if you had a bright boy with a high IQ, historically speaking what did you do? You married him off to someone with money so he could sit and learn and they would have ka'h, many children. What did you do with a bright non-Jewish European? The only avenues for advancement unless they were upper class were either clergy (and [mostly] celebacy) and the army - neither fields that are going to promote large families. Either way, there you have it - natural selection!

Motek

Sun, Jun 19 2005, 5:52 pm

though those with money weren't necessarily bright

you see it sometimes, a couple where one is very smart and the other is not, and the kids are a mix, some bright, some not

but I think Reb. Heller's point has some validity anyway

also, we are the People of the Book and education was always of vital importance to us, so we strongly promote and reward studying

even those of average intelligence are pushed to do well

amother

Sun, Jun 19 2005, 6:20 pm

I am curious about these statistics. I always thought that Judaism was a religion and not a race. So what difference would it make if 27% of all Nobel prize winners were Jewish ? That just means that 73 % were Christian or whatever. Also if we agree that in traditional Jewish culture learning was highly valued, isn't it more a comment on social positioning than natural selection ?

Motek

Sun, Jun 19 2005, 6:35 pm

why the anonymity, amother?

Jews descend from the 12 Tribes, sons of Yaakov, plus whatever converts joined the Jewish people. So no, Judaism is not merely a religion.

Jews are altogether different than non-Jews in other ways too, having a G-dly soul. Also see the thread on Bodies of Jews Are Different.

Quote:

Also if we agree that in traditional Jewish culture learning was highly valued, isn't it more a comment on social positioning than natural selection ?

the statistics seem to indicate that it goes way beyond promoting learning, but I do wonder - what if a certain segment of the world population, which is not known for its high scholastic achievement, was raised by Jews - how would they do?

I wonder if any studies have been done on Jews who adopt non-Jewish children and how they fare.

Tefila

Sun, Jun 19 2005, 6:41 pm

Quote:

They say that the reason for this unusual record may be that differences in Ashkenazic and northern European I.Q. are not large at the average but become more noticeable at the extremes; for people with an I.Q. over 140, the proportion is 4 per 1,000 among northern Europeans but 23 per 1,000 with Ashkenazim.

may is the key word here. And besides I think this is shtus mit lukshen.
I think these studies are not by any means of the imagination to be relied upon. Confused

Mandy

Sun, Jun 19 2005, 6:41 pm

Hi. I read this thread and thought of my neighbor. She has a little boy and she was told just last week that he has mild mental retardation. He is just such a sweetheart and always so happy to do mitzvos and go to shul with his tatty. My neighbor is really upset but I tell her that the brains are not that important and a good heart is better. Right ?

Motek

Sun, Jun 19 2005, 7:13 pm

Mandy wrote:

I tell her that the brains are not that important and a good heart is better. Right ?

definitely the right thing to say under the circumstances!

freilich - nobody is disputing the facts though, that:

Quote:

Ashkenazi Jews make up 3 percent of the American population but won 27 percent of its Nobel prizes, and account for more than half of world chess champions

how do YOU explain that? Wink

Yael

Mon, Jun 20 2005, 10:47 am

I think that the reason why more jews are succeeding intellectually is simply b/c our culture encourages learning especially gemara among boys, and its known that the more you exercise the brain the stronger it gets. therefore the more you learn the smarter you get. and after so many generations of learning like this its no wonder that our genetics have become smarter.

Motek

Tue, Jun 21 2005, 5:16 am

Yael wrote:

and after so many generations of learning like this its no wonder that our genetics have become smarter.

would you say that someone who exercises, who is extremely fit, who teaches his children to be the same, will eventually produce generations that have "strong, fit genes"? Are you saying that the way we live our lives (learning etc.) affects our genes?

Motek

Tue, Jun 21 2005, 6:07 am

nu, so is the theory of evolution scientific? proven?

again, will those who "work out" (equivalent to those who study a lot), pass along "strong genes" (equivalent to smart genes) to their kids?

and why the anonymity?

gryp

Tue, Jun 21 2005, 7:57 am

on the topic- an interesting article:
http://www.chabad.org/magazine.....87887

an excerpt:

Quote:

The U.S. Department of Education recently authored a report entitled the Early Childhood Longitudinal Study. The report follows more than 20,000 American schoolchildren from kindergarten through the fifth grade, gathering each child's test scores and demographic information. The parents of each child were asked numerous questions regarding their families' habits, lifestyle and activities. The final report is an extraordinary wealth of data that, when given a rigorous analysis, provides some powerful indications regarding the fundamentals of parenting methods.

One of the study's interesting conclusions is that a child who has fifty books in his/her home scores roughly five percent higher than a child without any books. Moreover, a child with one hundred books at home scores an additional five points above the child with fifty books. Most people would look at this data and presume that the number of books in the home correlate to the amount of time in which a parent or caretaker reads to the child. However, the conclusion of the study is quite different. Regardless of the time spent on reading to a child, the mere presence of books in the home influenced a child’s test scores.

Yael

Tue, Jun 21 2005, 11:41 am

sure it makes sense, since the families with the books in the home are the smarter ones, and the ones who are intersted in reading the books in the first place and thats why they buy them.
why would a family that doesnt enjoy reading and learning buy books?
the study makes it sound like if you buy a library of books even if you never look at them just by osmosis they will make your kids smarter. Rolling Eyes