Are you going to help me start this?

ora_43

Tue, Aug 11 2015, 1:44 pm

My dh isn't in the right field to help, or the right part of the world. But I wish you a lot of luck.

From your posts here it's still not so clear what your dh would be good at, or interested in. Being an ideas guy or co-running a business are dream jobs for a lot of people, but where does he want to start? There are a lot of different ways to get to that goal. There are a million different kind of businesses a person could run. (restaurant, bus company, private investigation office... all quite different)

Does he like working with people, eg in customer service or a "helping" field? Does he like working with a team of coworkers, or does he/would he prefer to work alone? Does he like hands-on work? art? computers? writing? Basically, what kinds of things does he see himself actually doing day to day?

I think that the more specific you are (eg "he wants to get into the field of computer repair, but he needs a way to get more experience") the more likely people are to think "hey, I know someone who works in that field."

amother

Gray

Tue, Aug 11 2015, 2:31 pm

actually it doesn't exist yet really,

What she means is her husband could start a business, if there was someone who could tell him how that type of business needs to be run, contacts, pitfalls. Yes there are organizations that will write you a resume or a business plan, but they aren't actually in the dry cleaning business as an example.

Or her husband could take a nursing home administration job, if someone could help him figure out what he needs to get one.

Right now, he has a degree, a job he hates, and can't see a way to get out of his situation. He needs someone to help him start on the road.

OP the best way to do this is to find someone who either lives in another city and doesn't mind giving you info on an industry. or you can try to franchise a successful store that you know of. A bagel shop for example might not mind you buying there recipes.

If you have a business idea, a business coach like the ones in AMI magazine really work. I know people who have been helped very much.

What he needs to find is a career counselor. They exist and can be good at what they do. They can help you figure out if there are courses you can take to increase skills or if you need to start a business.
But career counseling is a good business, maybe your husband should do that.

Amarante

Tue, Aug 11 2015, 2:59 pm

Like others, I am confused regarding what your husband wants to do.

If he has no clear idea if what he wants or how and why his skill sets would make him invaluable to an employer, it will be hard to get a job because the cover letter and resume and even an interview won't convince an employer as to why he should be hired for a specific job.

I don't know if it is correct or you just want to be deliberately vague about details, but what I am understanding from your posts is that your husband has a degree in something but is looking for completely unrelated jobs for which he has no background but wants the employers to recognize his potential and train him.

In general, job searches don't work like that. Does he have actual skills that are valuable? Is he taking courses or at least networking in fields that he is passionate about.

As others have written, a job coach or vocational advisor would be more helpful at this point than a mentor. Once he know exactly what he wants and is taking concrete steps to prove is value in that field, he can contact people in the field for advice. I did that when I wanted to change fields and just sent letters to people asking them if they would give me advice. Not a job but advice but I was very specific about what I was looking for and why I thought their advice would be helpful. And they would often give me other people to contact. That's how you network. But frankly no one really has advice for someone who doesn't have a clue about what they are looking for and why they are looking for it and why they would make a great fil in the blanks.

Bitachon101

Tue, Aug 11 2015, 6:03 pm

mha3484 wrote:

I think your idea has merit. There is someone in my community who runs very successful networking events and could probably give you tips. His name is Shalom Klein and his org is JewishB2B. http://www.jewishb2bnetworking.com/

But one piece of advice from someone who has tried out a few fields with mixed success and now works in a field she really likes and is better suited for. I also got a break from someone in my community BH. You have have to have solid skills and a plan and be motivated to grow. If someone puts time into helping you, when you get a job you have to make sure you can back it up. Take any courses you can find while you have down time. Become certified in an area. See a career counselor to see what you are suited for. Don't let yourself feel like dreck. A personal example, I work in staffing, I sign up for every webinar offered by LinkedIn and read the slides later. I am already planning on taking the certification exam they offer. I read a ton and try to be informed about my field. It makes you feel more productive too!

Hatzlacha OP.

Never heard of that one, will definitely check it out.
The point here and in many other situations as well though, is that although the power of networking is phenomenal and is the starting point - some guys need someone to help them through the process. The 2 together can solve it for some.
In my case he has tried and tried but gets lost somewhere in there. In others in similar situations its the same.

He's worked, he has some skills and they are clearly listed in his resume (computer efficient, fast typist, organized, hard working, sales and customer service experience etc...), he simply doesnt have the clarity of what he wants to do. Some ppl know they will be good doctors or lawyers. Some people know they will be good graphic designers or programmers. Some people know they will be good accountants or therapists. He has no clue. And he is NOT the only one in that boat. He is open to try different options. He adjusts his objective in his cover letter to employers to reflect why he would be an asset in their company.
He clearly has some working experience in there.
He just doesnt have a clear passion of which direction to go.
And job board after job board, networking event after networking event, are all getting him no where. Yes they help MANY people. But these guys need more. These guys need someone who cares enough to just put them on their feet.
I know a few people that have devoted their lives to do this kind of thing for some people (which is where I got the idea) but there are more that are needed as these people have their hands full and are dealing with particularly heavy situations where divorce is almost happening.
Why does it have to get to the point of divorce for someone to step in and help out?
So many guys in our community have so much to offer and by taking on one case that they can help out as their "little" brother so to speak can make a huge difference.

To answer you about reading up on things and taking courses, I think I might have a cow if he pays any more money to take courses.
He's taken a bunch of OU courses online, he's taken courses where he paid good money, and every time he hears about a new course and says maybe this is for me I feel my heart drop to my stomach.
He's not a course guy. He needs a job training in a specific area where he can apply it right away. Not a whole load of information that he cant use cuz he doesnt have what to use it for and doesnt have what to apply it to and by the time he might he'll have long forgotten.

But he really does need a coach, counselor. Unfortunately at this point we arent sure how we are paying rent this month so Im not sure where he would be getting money for a coach. But its more than a coach. He and the others in his situation need someone to take them on as their "chesed". As their person that they are going to make sure gets set up in a situation that works for them because they really care and want to make a difference and have the skills and connections needed to do so.

As much as this is for me.... this is for everyone in these kind of situations and we all have our own.

Bitachon101

Tue, Aug 11 2015, 6:15 pm

ora_43 wrote:

My dh isn't in the right field to help, or the right part of the world. But I wish you a lot of luck.

Thank you. However, maybe your dh can help someone else on here that needs similar help in your part of the world.....
If he is in a particular field and we are able to post that someone in that field would like to be able to help someone in that country/state just contact us and we will make the shidduch... imagine that. You may be able to turn around someone's life! Take them from the dust back to life and help them be able to support a live family that will forever owe you gratitude!!!

ora_43 wrote:

From your posts here it's still not so clear what your dh would be good at, or interested in. Being an ideas guy or co-running a business are dream jobs for a lot of people, but where does he want to start? There are a lot of different ways to get to that goal. There are a million different kind of businesses a person could run. (restaurant, bus company, private investigation office... all quite different)

I agree. However every business idea he has - he gets stuck at step one. He doesnt know where to start. He doesnt know who to turn to and people that are in competition are obviously not going to set up competition for themselves.
He had put alot of research work into one type of product he thought of opening a store for and was getting nowhere cuz he had nobody to train him what he needed to know and when he called ppl even in a different city for guidance they made him feel like a fool that he was thinking of selling a product he knew not much about. He tried to go to business coach but they business coach said it was a waste of time to talk to him before all his research was done and when everything is done and he has it all worked out come back. But he couldnt get past that step 1.

and that I have seen with quite a few people. so many clever ideas with no clue how to do the proper research and nobody guiding them to step two.
Google and wikipedia only get you so far.

But it doesnt just have to be abusiness. With jobs it is the same.... so many people just dead end before they even get to know where they want to go.

ora_43 wrote:

Does he like working with people, eg in customer service or a "helping" field? Does he like working with a team of coworkers, or does he/would he prefer to work alone? Does he like hands-on work? art? computers? writing? Basically, what kinds of things does he see himself actually doing day to day?

I think that the more specific you are (eg "he wants to get into the field of computer repair, but he needs a way to get more experience") the more likely people are to think "hey, I know someone who works in that field."

He can work with people or on his own.
He has done customer service quite well, management quite well, and can work with people but doesnt like the focus to be having to sell to people or report all day to people.
he can communicate like a normal person with what needs to get done but there is a difference with having to give a pitch and sell yourself to someone and to just take care of what needs to get done.
he also enjoys quiet time so either way works.
He is not super handy but some hands on thing he's good at like cleaning and organizing.
He is an artsy brain in some ways but not necessary a typical what everyone else likes and wants... got his own style.
he's a regular computer guy but not advanced.
not quick on the learning new computer stuff but with patience and clear training he gets it. and he knows alot more than you gotta know in regualr computer stuff.

(he may not be social media saavy but types super fast, reads super fast, knows how to navigate the web like a pro, and once he learns a program can master it pretty well.)
he is a great writer. really very good at writing. had sent in some work to artscroll at some point for consideration but someone else got the job.
He sees himself doing a million things and nothing in other words he has no idea which path to take. He isnt particularly gifted or passionate in a specific area but is open to try and learn almost everything.
He just needs someone to get him there before he falls off the cliff trying in the dark.

Last edited by Bitachon101 on Tue, Aug 11 2015, 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

MagentaYenta

Tue, Aug 11 2015, 6:19 pm

As a hiring manager here are some things I looked for on a resume. If the person said they had computer competencies I would want to know what programs they used, what platforms and how they ranked that skill set (beginning, intermediate, expert). I would also compare their resume and cover letter. Did the cover letter indicate what skills were used for specific jobs. Saying you are a fast typer doesn't tell me anything. If you tell me that you can type 130 CPM and are proficient in scientific notation and that was a skill you used on 30% of your last job tells me something.

'Dear Mr. Blahblah,

This cover letter and resume are in response to your recent recruitment for a blankety blank. As you can see from my resume I've had 6 years of experience using Rodneys Professional Program for blankety blank successfully at an expert user level. I used this program for apx. 30% of my tasking. I also have transferrable skills in customer service, problem solving and plumbing as noted in my work with Yenta's Inc. My skill sets also include XYandZ which will be an added enhancement when performing the tasks mentioned in your recruitment. '....

Bitachon101

Tue, Aug 11 2015, 6:45 pm

sourstix wrote:

bitachon your second long post was right on spot! I even feel the pain. been there. I just wish I could help dh is out too. hes self employed and very slow at this point. but I am sure your pain will give someone to think about you. dont give up. were all jews, we need to help each other. thats the way the world goes round. may you have hatzlacha and easy job hunting.

Thank you. Yes I hope Hashem sends the right shaliach along to help out.
And may He send a shaliach to help yours too and everyother family that is in parnassah crisis too.

Mille wrote:

This already exists, doesn't it? OU job board, jewishjobs.com, jewishb2bnetworking.com, parnassatova.com (that last one might not be the right URL, it's a new one I've seen posted a lot).

But in the end, the person still needs to interview well and land the job.

I am not going to say anything bad about any of those places as they have all been helpful to those who can pull it off on their own. parnassahnetwork.com job board too. But I will repeat again and again, just like a special ed child cant make it always through the mainstream system, so to not everyone can get a job by job boards. Some people need special assistance to get them there. Whether its a family friend, a relative, a neighbor, or just someone who cares.
So while those places exist in pooling the jobs that may exist they dont particularly help people get jobs.
Imagine if someone just listed every Yeshiva guy on the market and told girls on your mark get set go.... go sell your self.
For the most part a shadchan needs to care to make it happen and convince those moms of boys why she should consider the out of town girl from a mediocre family with no yichus and not much support money. Yes she has good midos. Yes she can make an excellent wife. But she sure better bet every penny that she needs someone to care enough about her to push for her to get to go out!
Some guys need a parnassah Shadchan too to work for them.

amother wrote:

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for understanding.
And its not just him! There are so many people in the same boat!
I have had friends tell me that their husbands are in the same or similar situation asking me if I knew anyway to help them and Im thinking - if only you knew that Im in the same boat as you guys....

amother wrote:

OP the best way to do this is to find someone who either lives in another city and doesn't mind giving you info on an industry. or you can try to franchise a successful store that you know of. A bagel shop for example might not mind you buying there recipes.

If you have a business idea, a business coach like the ones in AMI magazine really work. I know people who have been helped very much.

What he needs to find is a career counselor. They exist and can be good at what they do. They can help you figure out if there are courses you can take to increase skills or if you need to start a business.
But career counseling is a good business, maybe your husband should do that.

yes, we have tried the out of town connection thing but didnt get very far. I think we need to find a coach that will defer payment or gifting until he has money coming in cuz at this point he wont go anywhere without having a way to pay the guy.
And right now we are focusing on where to get money for rent this month without borrowing.

Bitachon101

Tue, Aug 11 2015, 6:55 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

This is actually an informative post. Thank you.
I will share it with him in case he has the motivation to send out just one more resume.

I think for those that are saying nobody will want someone that has no clue what they want, that this is a mistake.
When he applies he explains why he would be an asset for that particular job.
he doesnt have a specific direction but he is open to many.

But if someone would come along and tell him, I dont know if this is what you are looking for but I am looking to hire X or I know someone looking to hire X and I think you may actually be a good candidate - why not give it a try - as long as it is reasonable and within basic skill sets needed (obviously not specialty related in something that requires a full education in that field) he would probably consider it and maybe be able to be successful and get out of his rut.... who cares if it not his dream job cuz he doesnt really have a specific dream job.

And if you know someone with a specialty, like the mother on here that mentioned engineering and electrical, if someone would just reach out them and say, I am in the field or I have a relative in the field and I think you could be an asset to the company and hire them what a difference it would make.

Or if someone knows that someone needs to be set on their feet and would help them start a business and get them off the ground, it would mean the world to them.
My grandfather of blessed memory used to do exactly that for people.
He literally used to hear about people that needed parnassah and would help them start a business as a total chessed.

Too bad he isnt around anymore cuz if he was we probably would have who to turn to. As would so many others.

MagentaYenta

Tue, Aug 11 2015, 7:05 pm

Bitachon101 wrote:

Most recruiters will tell you not to bother sending out a resume unless a business is hiring. No one saves them, they all go straight into the circular file. I think it's important that people learn how to interview as well. In my state our Employment Dept. offers free classes on how to write and tailor a resume to a job application and interview practice sessions. For folks with credible work histories who take this course 80% are hired. You may want to see what is available in your state. As to starting a business, check to see if your state has any entrepreneurship incubators. If he has a plan to be self employed this is a good place to begin.

ETA: Has your husband applied to any apprenticeship programs?

TeachersNotebook

Tue, Aug 11 2015, 8:42 pm

OP, I am sorry you are struggling, and I really wish you much hatzlacha and siyata dishmaya. This sounds VERY hard.

In fact, it sounds like many people don't really know what it's like to be in your situation. Not through any fault of their own, per se, but because they've never been there, and as you say- people don't like to talk about it. You have a specific situation where you don't need job boards, and you don't need professional development courses. You need specific things to help with a specific problem- and truthfully, even after reading through all of your posts, I'm not sure I get it 1,000%. I think it would be so helpful to write another post (or an article, or whatever) just describing it for us, letting us know about this subset of workers, their situations, and their specific needs. I am not doubting anything you say; I'm just truly interested in learning more.

So back to the solution. You say you need people who are willing to not be just pro-bono job coaches, but to actually literally take them through the beginnings of the job. Starting a business is a bit of an outstanding example. Do you need someone to throw in the money, time, skills, resources, and networks that they have until someone like your husband is on their feet, and then walk away from business? Is that what you're looking for?

And then how does that work for a job where someone like your husband is working for someone else? Do you need the pro-bono coach to sit on the phone with him each night for however long it takes until your husband gets it and seems stable?

I'm trying to even apply it to my own husband. He is a nurse. How can he help someone like your husband? What can he do?

Your idea for a network of coaches sounds amazing. It sounds like you have a clear idea of what you're looking for and how these people can help. Here are my suggestions:
1. Make a clear job description for these coaches. What do you need from them? How much of their time and resources do you expect it to take? What would make a successful coach? Why would someone want to be a coach? Market to the coaches so they want to join.
2. Figure out the best format. Let's say you had all the people in the world who want to be coaches, and all the people who need to be coached. What's the best way for your initiative to work to connect them?
3. And then, how DO you find all these coaches and coachees? Is it through your format- for example, if you partner with the OU, you have an existing customer base? Or is it through your own networking and marketing? What will your networking and marketing strategy be?
4. If you want to open this only to Imamother, contact Yael to figure out the best way of doing it. She'll probably have some good ideas, if she's interested in hosting this on her site. However, I would suggest you do this independent of Imamother, since the need seems so broad. Maybe partner with OU or other existing Jewish job helpers to try to expand their services. Or start your own website, and market aggressively.

Let me know what else I can do to help.

amother

Saddlebrown

Tue, Aug 11 2015, 9:33 pm

I have a friend in the computer field. According to my friend, you have to be at the top of your game to get a job in computers.

Your husband has a few choices:

1. Tell your husband to study computers inside out, to try for a minimum wage job at a Tzedaka organization for two years and then look for a good-paying job.

2. Tell your husband to go back to college for something else, such as accounting, bookkeeping, engineering, social work, counseling, occupational therapy assistant or physical therapy assistant.

3. Other options include going to a trade school for a few months, then interning for low pay until he can get a better pay.

4. As a man in brooklyn, he can do well as a speech therapist.

The problem is with supply and demand. In the 1990's, the demand was greater than supply. Now, if your dh is not the brightest and the best in computers, then this is clearly not what he should be doing. It's time to cut the losses and train for another field.

MagentaYenta

Tue, Aug 11 2015, 10:11 pm

Bitachon101 wrote:

If times are this tough it may be in your family's best interest for him to take any decent paying job he can get. Has he tried places like Walmart, Home Depot or Target? Target often has early morning stocking jobs that he could work before his regular job. This can give your family some financial relief and then you can study other options once you get a handle on you family finances.

Not everyone starts at the top, public service is a good way to get an entry level job with benefits. Many public service jobs can open doors to transfers within the system, state paid education and training for specific job skills etc. and a career path of progressive promotions.

SRS

Tue, Aug 11 2015, 11:24 pm

I believe there are a lot of parnassah initiatives within the frum world already and I think there is a lot of informal and more formal networking, but it will only take you so far mostly because people in large industry can advertise openings, but have little hiring power, and smaller businesses tend to open very specific skill set positions.

I would challenge your husband to step out of this world because the opportunities are likely too narrow. Each community is different, but we have a few basic types: small businessmen (food service, small retail), skilled professionals (lawyers, doctors, engineers, scientists, teachers, therapists), klei kodesh, and brokers (mortgage, real estate, insurance). As much as I would like to pair up with someone struggling and give them guidance, my ability to be effective for someone without solid experience and verifiable skills is very limited. I think that is true of many of the people I manage to interact and network with along the way. And I think this holds true with many of my own friends and their husbands and friends.

The world is large and there are many jobs in it and many career paths. I'd recommend that men who are struggling in the parnassah arena stop dreaming about running a business (just a common thread I've noted in nearly every struggling topic) and start looking around their neighborhood and local business areas and start looking at the types of jobs that are out there and what places would have the most upward mobility. One of the frustrations is the resumes hitting the recycling bin. Sometimes it is just important to take a job, any job, so that you can believe that yes, you are employable. So take the retail pharmacy job. Then you can see if you like that environment and determine how to move up within that world. I guarantee you many engineers could never be hired to manage a retail branch of a Rite Aid (recently saw a store looking for a manager) because these types of jobs need someone clean cut who has actually worked the floor and knows the inventory.

Goodluck and goodluck with a mentoring initiative. But please do consider checking in with the local economic development initiatives at the city and county level and at the local library. The frum world is a just a bit narrow.

amother

Lavender

Tue, Aug 11 2015, 11:51 pm

Ok so first of all your plan sounds really nice, I'm not sure though if setting an email address for it is the way to go- maybe open up a new thread here where women can write what exactly their DHs (or themselves) are looking for and other women can see if their dhs ( or themselves) can help?

I think the biggest problem with your plan though is that you are looking for someone to vouch for a guy he doesn't know - that's a problem for his reputation. Let's say my DH talks to your DH and then calls up someone he knows (x) and asks for a job for your DH. X is goig to ask about your DH. My DH will have to put his reputation on the line and say your DH is really great etc when IRL he doesn't really know him. What happens if your DH ends up messing up ?(im sure YOUR DH won't but just saying- there are some crooks or even just lazy bums out there).
Anyway DH is in no position to do MUCH unfortunately but would totally help if he could - he actually tries to help anyone he can or knows because he knows how hard it can be in the work field.

I really relate to what you're aying - some guys need someone to advise them. Dh always says that. And it's also hard that many guys have fathers that are in kollel or rabbis or are just in diff fields than their sons and don't know how to help and instruct their sons.

I wish you and DH Hazlacha!

rowo

Wed, Aug 12 2015, 5:53 am

MagentaYenta wrote:

I know of a very artistic woman who was studying some art or design course and worked at a supermarket on the side while she studying.
A few years later she is still artistic and creative, but instead of pursuing a career in that area she is working her way up the management ladder in the supermarket. They provided on the job training and in her early to mid twenties she is already quite successful. There is oppurtunity to rise quite high.
She isn't frum, but as someone else said, many people are looking outside of the 'bubble'.