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Shtisel - WITH spoilers :) including season 3
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post Fri, Feb 19 2021, 11:59 am
How do you go back to Season 1 in OverMasach?
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amother




Babypink
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 1:21 am
etky wrote:
I also very much enjoyed our "exegesis" of Shtisel here - and yes, I immediately thought of O'Henry regarding that scene (one of the best in this season IMO) but you're right. It very much evokes that midrash too, especially since the result of the brothers' loving compromises was binyan habayit and here Ruchami and Chanina were engaging in their own binyan (shalom) bayit.


This is a beautiful way to put it.
Not to derail this thread, but I have heard that the story of the two brothers is not a midrash, nor does it have any traditional Jewish sources. It is, at best, a legend. But still a very nice story.
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amother




Babypink
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 1:36 am
I loved Shtisel, and what I'm about to say is not to take away from it.
But, in terms of getting the costumes and such right, these are some of the things that, to me, took away from the authenticity.
1. Most of the characters are dressed very authentically. But there were a few who were not.
In the scene where Lipa goes to hang up signs to find extras for the movie, two men stop him and argue with him. These two men do not look authentic and don't act the part.
Also, Zilberman, (Tzvi Aryeh's chavrusa) did not look authentic, I dont know why, but he didn't.
The low neckline in one scene for Gitty, as well as the short skirt for Shira Levenson and Libby also stand out.
2. Here and there, the characters would mess up a word or hav'arah.
Chanina says "Usevasel" instead of "usevatel."
A few times you hear "Besoros tovos" instead of "besuros tovos"
Also, Lipa says "hakoidesh baruch hu". Lol!
3. Chanina is seen not wearing a yarmulke in the last episode, when he takes his hat off.
4. I think they should have made Rachelli Warburg's father a bit less chassidish looking. Somehow, I think it would have been more fitting if he were a regular chareidi man in a short jacket, maybe a short trimmed beard or clean shaven, without curly payos. Rachelli is clearly a bit to the left of the other shtisel women, from the way she dresses, and her long hair. (Compared to Ruchami, Gitty, Tovi and Libby.)
5. I dont understand how the shidduch with Nechama (the mizrachist) could have ever happened with Sucher, when Sucher was a chareidi yeshiva bachur.
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amother




White
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 2:37 am
amother [ Babypink ] wrote:

5. I dont understand how the shidduch with Nechama (the mizrachist) could have ever happened with Sucher, when Sucher was a chareidi yeshiva bachur.


Nechama is obviously a bit out of the box. She might have been part of the Shtisel crowd in her youth, and changed over the decades.

I actually have a lot of family who are eighth/ninth generation Yerushalmim, and some of the older ones remind me of Nechama. They grew up in a Shtisel milieu but become more modern over the years. The women in particular. (Note that even within the Shtisel crowd, some of the women are more modern. See Toby for example).
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amother




Babypink
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 2:44 am
amother [ White ] wrote:
Nechama is obviously a bit out of the box. She might have been part of the Shtisel crowd in her youth, and changed over the decades.

I actually have a lot of family who are eighth/ninth generation Yerushalmim, and some of the older ones remind me of Nechama. They grew up in a Shtisel milieu but become more modern over the years. The women in particular. (Note that even within the Shtisel crowd, some of the women are more modern. See Toby for example).


I don't view Tovi as more modern. She dresses just as right wing as the others. She happens to have some feminist ideas, because she is frustrated with having to spend so much time on the bus. When I say mizrachist, I am talking about an ideology. Tovi is still very much a chareidi, even if she wants to drive.
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amother




White
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 4:11 am
amother [ Babypink ] wrote:
I don't view Tovi as more modern. She dresses just as right wing as the others. She happens to have some feminist ideas, because she is frustrated with having to spend so much time on the bus. When I say mizrachist, I am talking about an ideology. Tovi is still very much a chareidi, even if she wants to drive.


Is it Tovi or Tobi? I don't remember.
In any case, I agree she is still fully charedi. However, she is more modern in more ways than one. It's not just the driving. There is this whole brilliant episode where they juxtapose Tzvi Aryeh's fascination with an automatic car window, with her phone conversation - she is explaining to a friend how the school office will no longer use photocopying and all the pupils have been assigned tablets. She is very with it.

Nechama dresses just as charedi as she does. There is no hint anywhere that she has become 'mizrachi' in ideology. Her pronunciation is modern Israeli, yes - but as I said, I know many women who grew up in that area, and after a few decades of working in modern Israeli places and moving to a different neighborhood - changed somewhat. Certainly they changed their way of speech.

Especially with the older generation - the lines weren't as delineated as they are now.

In any case, Issachar is referred to as becoming mizrachi after he split up with Nechama, if I recall correctly. Nowhere does it say that Nechama is a 'mizrachi'. She presents as totally charedi in appearance. Most charedim that I know in Israel speak with her pronunciation.
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amother




Babypink
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 10:24 am
amother [ Coffee ] wrote:
Every since I stumbled on this site a few weeks ago, I was able to see shtisel in a different light. There were connections I made that I now see are brought in here like the not every story being suitable for everyone theme coming up in multiple places like Malki and Bashevis, but it goes deeper.
https://overmasach.com/%D7%A9%.....7%98/

One thing not said outright in there is that I think Shulem's broken glasses were a symbolic turning point. His perspective changes. He goes to fix them when he goes to fix up the mess he caused between Nuchem and Nechama.

In any case, I think that article is a very insightful read. The ending is brilliant.

And then go back and read about previous episodes Wink I can't remember if I went all the way back but definitely the later ones I gleaned a lot about.


Thank you Coffee for introducing us to this website. Her writing is brilliant and her connections are so deep and clever, though it leads me to wonder if the producers intended all those things. She not only makes connections to past episodes, but also finds a theme within each episode that is able to stand on its own.
However I'm happy that I did not read these analysis before the end of the series as it allowed me to form my own interpretations without being influenced by other people.
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etky




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 10:50 am
amother [ Babypink ] wrote:
This is a beautiful way to put it.
Not to derail this thread, but I have heard that the story of the two brothers is not a midrash, nor does it have any traditional Jewish sources. It is, at best, a legend. But still a very nice story.


I just looked into this a bit and indeed it is apparently just a folk story - some scholars even believe it is based on an Arab story about Jerusalem. But it has circulated in the Jewish world for at least 200 years or so and it is a very heartwarming story about ahavat chinam that counters the motif of sinat chinam that purportedly led to the destruction of the Beit Hamikdash.
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amother




Babypink
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 10:58 am
etky wrote:
I just looked into this a bit and indeed it is apparently just a folk story - some scholars even believe it is based on an Arab story about Jerusalem. But it has circulated in the Jewish world for at least 200 years or so and it is a very heartwarming story about ahavat chinam that counters the motif of sinat chinam that purportedly led to the destruction of the Beit Hamikdash.

Exactly. It's always a bit of a letdown when something we grew up with turns out to be untrue. My 6 year old ds has been going around telling everyone that Vashti did NOT have pimples. She had tzaraas! And kids are always surprised when I point out that the megilla does not say that Vashti had a tail (and indeed it's hard to find a source for it.).
Sorry for derailing this, as it has nothing to do with Shtisel.

Now that Shtisel had ended, what are you ladies going to follow next?
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ichbingreit




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 1:47 pm
is there no next episode???? did I miss something???
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essie14




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 2:44 pm
ichbingreit wrote:
is there no next episode???? did I miss something???

Episode 9 was the finale
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 3:11 pm
How do you go back to Season 1 in OverMasach?
My Hebrew is pretty decent, I think, but not when it comes to getting around a website!
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amother




Ginger
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 6:30 pm
amother [ Babypink ] wrote:
Exactly. It's always a bit of a letdown when something we grew up with turns out to be untrue. My 6 year old ds has been going around telling everyone that Vashti did NOT have pimples. She had tzaraas! And kids are always surprised when I point out that the megilla does not say that Vashti had a tail (and indeed it's hard to find a source for it.).
Sorry for derailing this, as it has nothing to do with Shtisel.

Now that Shtisel had ended, what are you ladies going to follow next?

good question!!! any suggestions?
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amother




Coffee
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 7:02 pm
There's no season 1 on overmasach

Yeah, I purposely waited to post it so it wouldn't interfere with our own perspectives and let us only in retrospect see things. But I do think each episode had a theme. The subplots tied in with each other in some ways. We know the shtisel creators like symbolism so I'm not sure if all is actually intended, but definitely some is.
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 12:11 am
I had a pretty good time watching Bat haShoter. If you'd like to watch and discuss, come on over here!
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amother




Ginger
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 1:19 am
amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:
I had a pretty good time watching Bat haShoter. If you'd like to watch and discuss, come on over here!
I enjoyed it very much, but it‘s over, too! Going robthe other thread now.
Any other ideas?
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amother




Babypink
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 1:31 am
amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:
I had a pretty good time watching Bat haShoter. If you'd like to watch and discuss, come on over here!


Is it clean? How many episodes?
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amother




Ginger
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 1:48 am
amother [ Babypink ] wrote:
Is it clean? How many episodes?

lots of episodes, also lots of kissing
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amother




Ginger
 

Post Tue, Feb 23 2021, 1:49 am
one season, 41 episode
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post Sun, Feb 28 2021, 2:35 am
I've seen now everything till episode 5 of the third season wow... I love chanina and ruchami they are such tzadikkim.... And Rachelli is a tzadeikis ok... I will not look at the spoilers...
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