Helping married kids equally or on a need basis

Chayalle

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 12:48 pm

I do think children should not be rethinking their parents' spending choices.

I also was thinking something like this: Let's say I have a child who is struggling in a certain area, say socially. I decide to spend XYZ on this child to help with the social issue. Maybe I enroll the child in an extra curricular program, or I send the child to camp, to give the child more social opportunities. Does this then obligate me to spend the same on all my other children (who may not have the same struggles)? If I can't afford same for all children, do I withhold the help/opportunity from the struggling child, in order to be a fair parent in the eyes of all of my children?

Personally, I try to give each child what that child needs. It does not need to be equal.

OP, assuming your parents were working within the yeshivish/chareidi shidduch system, your parents made a choice for your brother when they agreed to the shidduch for him with your SIL. No doubt they were happy that he was set up with a girl whose parents were willing to offer support in E"Y for him while he learns (no small thing nowadays). They felt this is good for their son, and it involves certain commitments and expenses on their end too.

They felt he needed this shidduch, and they do their part - 50% of travel expenses for Yomim Tovim, or bringing both of them in when they make a simcha. From what I see, this is pretty standard when going into this type of shidduch.

Not saying your feelings aren't valid - just explaining a bit what might be in your parents' outlook on this.

ETA: Not EVERYONE does it this way - I have a niece who lives in E"Y, being supported by her parents, and they did not bring her in for my sister's (her aunt's) wedding....

amother

Slateblue

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 1:20 pm

My sil gets supported more than she should for a 'kollel life'. She leases cars, buys nice clothing, expensive groceries....We got supported a fraction of that amount by my inlaws, and it stopped when my husband started working.
She's a girl and my inlaws feel responsible to help her. They know that without their help she will be in huge debt.
I am not jealous of her at all. I feel bad because I know it will be very hard for her to be independent. It is just a little weird that she leads a more lavish lifestyle than me, even though her husband is in kollel.

boysrus

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 1:23 pm

I am so sorry that it makes you feel bad that your brother gets more than you do from your parents. I am sure it is not indicative of them loving him more than they love you or anything like that! I would not think too deeply about it, if I were you. I am sure there are cheshbonos that you dont know about.....
I feel really bad for you that you are having these feelings. It didnt occur to me that a person could feel like this about parents helping one child more than another, because I have never felt this way about my brother in kollel being helped out more than me. I am proud that he is in kollel, and grateful to my parents that they are helping him out because he is their son who cant meet his family obligations. It never occureed to me to expect them to help us out too, even though we are very low income right now unfortunately. Why not? Becuase everyone's situation is different, I wouldnt want my brother's challenges in life, nor would he want mine. I believe that once you can enable yourself to let go of the negative feelings, you will feel much better. If you can train yourself to be happy with what you have and to be able to live within your means, then you will feel happier and less bothered by this.
I wish you happiness and good health and hope that your siblings get engaged soon!

Raisin

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 1:25 pm

OP, you could easily let your parents know that the next simcha, only you are flying in, since you can't afford it or are saving up or whatever. I wouldn't be shocked if they offered to help you pay for the other tickets.

Sometimes, you need to ask. But you may feel better paying your own way and not relying on your parents.

amother

Tangerine

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 1:53 pm

raison, I like that idea in theory but would never do that. I would never blackmail my parents into flying me in. I get along very well with my parents and am not going to let money ruin that. Instead Ill complain annoymously on imamother Smile

I just dont think its a very fair system that those that choose to live in Israel get so much more. Not just my brother, my friends and relatives in Israel too - they complain all the time how hard it is there and they have no money. Um no one asked you to live there. Ladies I know its hard to find jobs there and that is why you only work 7 hours a week but I am working full time to make ends meet to have what I have. And on the topic please stop asking me when I am coming to visit you. You only come to America to visit family when your tickets are sponsored. When someone sponsors my tickets to Israel then Ill go....

Chayalle

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 2:05 pm

amother wrote:

I'm totally with you on this. I have learned to set boundaries with siblings who live in Israel - if you choose to live there, you need to buy your kids shirts there and manage with Israeli peanut butter. I'm not going to drive myself nuts trying to find you American clothes at sale prices and find people to shlep it there for you. If my kids would choose to live there I would make it clear that it wouldn't be on my cheshbon, and I would not be flying them in all the time.

When my SIL told me she absolutely insists that I come to her son's Bar Mitzvah, I told her straight out I'd love to come if she finds me a sponsor. I have no problem being honest about my financial situation.

I'll admit though it would be hard for me not to see my kids, if they should choose to live overseas....

SRS

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 6:44 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I also was thinking something like this: Let's say I have a child who is struggling in a certain area, say socially. I decide to spend XYZ on this child to help with the social issue. Maybe I enroll the child in an extra curricular program, or I send the child to camp, to give the child more social opportunities. Does this then obligate me to spend the same on all my other children (who may not have the same struggles)? If I can't afford same for all children, do I withhold the help/opportunity from the struggling child, in order to be a fair parent in the eyes of all of my children?

You are addressing minor children, not adult children, which are two vastly different subjects. I'm a big proponent that for adult children, that keeping things pretty equal is the best idea (learned out from observation of human nature, sage advice, as well as recent parshiyos). I am continually amazed how parents can just lavish money on one child (usually the one they view as either the "nebuch" or the one that brings them some status) and just not do for others as if human nature ceases to exist with the nebuch/status kid.

For minor children, I think meeting needs is the most important factor in giving opportunities to children, but that when doing so, one should make sure they are not giving a multi-colored coat to one kid and a ripped dress to another (I know someone that got that type of treatment as a minor). It is a real conversation especially when there is a child with magnified needs. I like to try and take the approach that I can shave off from all places to make more room in the budget, but there are people with much smaller budgets to work with and harder decisions to make.

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 6:54 pm

My in-laws are fully and totally supporting three of their four married kids, including one with a large family. All the men are in kollel. When we were a kollel couple, we got an amount that almost covered our rent, and we were responsible for everything else, and we maxxed out our credit cards and didn't have a penny for anything extra. My SILs don't seem to have that problem.

I'm just glad that now we are self sufficient and don't have to deal with the enslavement that comes along with being supported.

amother

Hotpink

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 7:07 pm

amother wrote:

Yes she said explicitly said that shed rather come home for a wedding than Pesach. True no one is even engaged but its the concept that bothers me. They would be coming home for Pesach without paying a dime too. They are choosing to save the all expense paid trip home for a wedding than Pesach. The pesach trip my parents would be paying half of. The wedding IYH 100 percent. I am thrilled for her that her parents can support and she barely works. I am happy for my brother that my parents help him out from time to time also. Travel is a real killer for me though. yes I am jealous that my parents are helping him with travel and not me. I think it would be lot more fair if we both got some. I guess life is just not fair.......

Would you be happier if he came for Pesach and your parents paid half of their coupled tickets, and then he came for the next family wedding where your parents only paid for his ticket and she stayed home? That would mean your parents paying for two tickets, two different times, both tickets for him directly.

Is that different than them staying home for Pesach and at the time of the next family wedding your parents paying for two tickets, one time, with one ticket going to him and one ticket going to her?

I'm trying to understand the core of what's bothering you.

amother

Red

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 8:26 pm

to OP-

I totally get you. what a stupid and insensitive thing to say to you. and I am sure you feel resentful that she is 'using' your parents when they are not wealthy. I would get very upset too!!! and that is so unfair that you are expected to pay for everything.

The kollel system really is unfair. too many parents simply cannot afford it- it is a system geared towards the wealthy and the middle class parents have to squeeze themselves which unfortunately affects their judgement. IMO, your parents are being a little unfair by paying 100 percent to them when it is a luxury to live in Israel and you are so hardworking and have the expense. It really is not fair. I am sure your parents are in a pinch and are probably relieved that at least some of their kids are "self sufficient.'

In any case, if no one is engaged than I would try to calm down and just not focus on this. Nothing good comes out of comparing and contrasting etc. Just do what you have to do and dont ask too many questions because it will just make YOU suffer. I am a jealous person by nature so I completely empathize with you. It is hard. But do it for yourself and try to fargen and not be so upset. Honestly, I would rather be you in this situation. How sucky is it to not have a job and be mooching off people vs. having a job and feeling great about putting money away. the latter is way more healthy!!!

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 8:43 pm

OP, instead of viewing her comment about flying in for a wedding versus Pesach as one about money, why not view it as her loving your family and feeling truly a part of it? Giving up coming home for Pesach is not easy, especially as that will mean that she will have a lot of work to do that she's never done before, plus a lot of expenses. But she's willing to take that option and not risk missing out on a once in a lifetime family milestone. Would you rather she feel like just an "in law" and not a "sister"?

As an above poster pointed out, your parents are still paying for the same number of tickets. Not to mention that tickets Pesach time are almost definitely going to be more expensive than the likely off season tickets to fly in for the wedding.

amother

Tangerine

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 9:33 pm

My issue here is not if they come in for wedding or pesach. My issue here is that I find it very not.fair that they get anexpense paid trips door to door when they.come in and I get nothing when I fly my family in twice a year. I understand that thier trip is more expensive and they have less than me. However I do not think it would be so terrible if they were forced to cough up a few hundred dollars to come to America. My parents only have limited resourses and I would like to see them a little more spread out instead of all going to my brother. most people here seem to think I am just being a jealous brat....

the world's best mom

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 9:42 pm

I think your feelings are understandable, for it is sometimes difficult to see someone else being handed things you want while you work hard to get these things yourself.

However, I do think you should work on yourself to stop being jealous. I don't believe your parents are doing anything wrong. I don't think they should withhold money from their son who needs it just because they also have a daughter who would like to have it too. You make enough money to live off of, so you don't need it like he does.

I also think it would be best if people didn't tell each other how much money they get from your parents. The only thing that can accomplish is to make you jealous.

As I always tell my kids, "Fair doesn't mean that everyone gets exactly the same things. Fair means that everyone gets what is best for them."

amother

Tangerine

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 11:26 pm

[quote="the world's best mom"]

However, I do think you should work on yourself to stop being jealous. I don't believe your parents are doing anything wrong. I don't think they should withhold money from their son who needs it just because they also have a daughter who would like to have it too. You make enough money to live off of, so you don't need it like he does.

I also think it would be best if people didn't tell each other how much money they get from your parents. The only thing that can accomplish is to make you jealous.
[/quote

I am not saying to withhold from him. Pay 80 percent of his tickets. Make him work a little bit for the tickets. I want to go to my parents for YomTov I figure it out. You chose an expensive lifestyle and expext things handed to you. You should at least be expected to pay for something. There is a certain attitude among couples living in Israel that really bugs me. They expect a lot from family here because they live there and dont have.money. Like I said in previous posts bh we are making it day to day because I am working fulltime. We live simply. I can definitely use help with big ticket items.like tickets home.

Your other point is100 percent true. Kids should not discuss what parents give. I know my my brother is helped from time to time with money for basic expenses. I dont know how often or how much and I dont care. I dont need that. I helped my.father book their tickets home and that is how I know that every last leg of journey was sponsored. I was honestly surprised. I knew my.parents were paying for tickets to NY I didnt realize they also pay for them from NY.to their hometown. My mother was pretty upset that my father asked me for help booking the tickets.

amother

Olive

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 11:30 pm

[quote="amother"]

the world's best mom wrote:

However, I do think you should work on yourself to stop being jealous. I don't believe your parents are doing anything wrong. I don't think they should withhold money from their son who needs it just because they also have a daughter who would like to have it too. You make enough money to live off of, so you don't need it like he does.

I also think it would be best if people didn't tell each other how much money they get from your parents. The only thing that can accomplish is to make you jealous.
[/quote

I am not saying to withhold from him. Pay 80 percent of his tickets. Make him work a little bit for the tickets. I want to go to my parents for YomTov I figure it out. You chose an expensive lifestyle and expext things handed to you. You should at least be expected to pay for something. There is a certain attitude among couples living in Israel that really bugs me. They expect a lot from family here because they live there and dont have.money. Like I said in previous posts bh we are making it day to day because I am working fulltime. We live simply. I can definitely use help with big ticket items.like tickets home.

Your other point is100 percent true. Kids should not discuss what parents give. I know my my brother is helped from time to time with money for basic expenses. I dont know how often or how much and I dont care. I dont need that. I helped my.father book their tickets home and that is how I know that every last leg of journey was sponsored. I was honestly surprised. I knew my.parents were paying for tickets to NY I didnt realize they also pay for them from NY.to their hometown. My mother was pretty upset that my father asked me for help booking the tickets.

You want to take from your brother to go into your pocket. It is not nice.

amother

Olive

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 11:58 pm

amother wrote:

yes I also want a break sometimes. is it so not nice of me to expect him to work a little harder so I can get a little break myself. trust me they are not working too hard there.

It really is not nice. You have no right to judge how hard they work, and you are not entitled to any money. You are not a child whose sibling is getting more than you. What difference does it make to you if they work like dogs or they have a life of leisure?

What did your parents say when you brought it up?