Helping married kids equally or on a need basis

tigerwife

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 1:08 am

I understand OP's frustration, but it doesn't sound like she is making plans to cut her brother's support and claim some for herself. She's just venting. Better to vent anonymously than create actual rifts in her family.

There's a lot of judgement everywhere. I lived in EY as a kollel couple until recently. I worked full time but people assumed I was just hanging out drinking ice coffee all day, because isn't that what everyone in Israel does? I flew home twice a year but guess what? We were able to rent out our apartment for interim and covered much of the cost (a lot of couples do this). I would roll my eyes at my kollel friends with their part time teaching jobs in Lakewood but the truth is- nosing into other people's finances will never make you happy.

amother

Maroon

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 5:45 am

OP, I sympathize with you. I think I'd feel similarly in that kind of situation.

But just to offer another perspective: I live in Israel. My husband and I work very hard but still struggle to make ends meet. We do not get any support but usually get flown in as a gift by grandparents once a year. It costs a minimum of 5-6,000 dollars to fly in my family. Sometimes I wonder if my siblings are jealous - they don't get handouts of $5000!

But they get lots of other perks that I don't, just because they live near my parents. They're all on my parents' cellphone plan, some are on my parents' health insurance. They borrow my parents' big, beautiful car when needed. They get free babysitting all the time. They get birthday gifts and Chanukah gifts and no-good-reason gifts all the time for themselves and their kids (with my kids, it's out of sight, out of mind - they rarely get gifts.) My mother will often randomly buy things and drop it off for them - a new mirror for the house, a new fruit bowl, a few more outfits for the baby.

I don't get any of that living away from home. We're really on our own. So just another perspective to consider...

Also, consider that your SIL might not be so thrilled anymore about the fact that she's in EY. Often couples start off there and the husband is thrilled but as the years go on the wife had enough. Or they have no viable means of parnassah in the States so they just maintain the status quo (true, they made that decision, but many naive 19 year old girls don't know the ramifications of living in EY for 8 years with no real parnassah plan).

So there could be shalom bayis issues here too. Don't assume that she's happy to be living 6000 miles from family.

luppamom

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 5:51 am

amother wrote:

I just want to say that I like this post a lot.

Justlookup

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 7:53 am

Who says the reason she wants to come in for a wedding and not Pesach is financially related?!
You took one comment and made a whole parsha out of it...
Could be it's just very tiring and taxing for her to come in from Israel and being that she knows there are two siblings on the market and IY"H weddings very soon, she'd prefer to come in for that than Pesach! Have you ever considered that her words were literal and had no deeper (sinister) meaning behind, about cheshbonos and who will pay for what?
I think you are taking another, entirely unrelated factor (that your brother gets his yearly trips in paid for) and twisted them out of control regarding her comments.
I know this sounds harsh, and I think it's good to complain anonymously online than tutu create rift, but I think you're working yourself up more than letting it out and letting it go...

Chayalle

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 9:29 am

SRS wrote:

You are addressing minor children, not adult children, which are two vastly different subjects. I'm a big proponent that for adult children, that keeping things pretty equal is the best idea (learned out from observation of human nature, sage advice, as well as recent parshiyos). I am continually amazed how parents can just lavish money on one child (usually the one they view as either the "nebuch" or the one that brings them some status) and just not do for others as if human nature ceases to exist with the nebuch/status kid.

For minor children, I think meeting needs is the most important factor in giving opportunities to children, but that when doing so, one should make sure they are not giving a multi-colored coat to one kid and a ripped dress to another (I know someone that got that type of treatment as a minor). It is a real conversation especially when there is a child with magnified needs. I like to try and take the approach that I can shave off from all places to make more room in the budget, but there are people with much smaller budgets to work with and harder decisions to make.

I happen to agree with you personally - but I've seen in the yeshivish/chareidi world that many people raise their children to be what the OP describes. IOW - the OP's parents may have chosen for their adult child, in a way - they may have raised him to be what he is now, and they may have looked for that type of shidduch for him, and now they are paying the price for it. And whether or not it's right (you can see, just from reading OP's post, that it leads to jealousy, etc...) it's a choice her parents may have made, and they have a right to choose how to spend their own money, and how to raise their children, etc...

I have neighbors who have several married children, and I see how they struggle financially but they raised their children - and continue to do so - to be financially dependent on them even as adults, and they raised them to live a certain rather upscale lifestyle. They CHOSE this for their children, they WANT them to be like this. I don't know how they survive, but it's none of my business.

BTW - I grew up with a sibling with certain special needs needing more of family resources than everyone else, and when you're little you are jealous even if people tell you you should be grateful. But that's a whole nuther topic....I do believe in a certain level of equality being the best approach, though.

amother

Tangerine

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 9:59 am

Justlookup wrote:

I never said that her decision to come home for wedding as opposed to Pesach is financially related and Im sure it is not. I was simply pointing out that a wedding is all on my parents and YomTov is half half. That was not the point of this thread at all. What bugged me was the entitlement. She is not hoping that my parents would give her the money that they set aside for Pesach for a wedidng and then shed only have to pay for half the trip. She is waiting for an all expense paid trip.

Chayalle

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 10:05 am

amother wrote:

Someone pointed out that likely it's the same thing - because if they would pay for 1 ticket at Pesach, and then just your brother for a wedding, it's the same 2 tickets. This might be part of her cheshbon - and she's saying I'd rather just make Pesach at home (involves expense on her part) and come in when there's a wedding (same 2 tickets).

I think more of the issue here is that your parents pay for your brother, but they don't think to give you something when you fly - and that is not really fair.

BTW - I have a neighbor whose DH is from LA, and when his sister got married, she and her DH went to the wedding (without the kids). I have no idea who paid. When my brother got married in Israel, only I went to the wedding - without DH and the girls. Not everyone flies their whole family for a Simcha when it involves plane tickets.

amother

Tangerine

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 10:33 am

They have two kids so its not the same thing to fly them in Pesach and just my brother for a wedding or fly them all in for wedding. The wedding is 4 tickets where half Pesach plus one ticket for my brother is three tickets. I really started this thread just to vent that its not fair that I get nothing because I work hard where my they get things handed to them on silver platter and they don't work nearly as hard as I do. I have a full time job where my sister in law works around five hours a week. Yes, their entitlement attitude bugs me and yes I think that my parents should not be paying for 100 percent of their of tickets and should help me a little bit too. We all get along very well and I am not about to say anything to anyone in the family about my feelings here. I am not going to guilt my parents into giving me money either. Nothing is going to change because getting along with everyone is the most important thing and I intend for things to stay that way even if it means my savings will pay for my tickets home. I just wanted some sympathy here......

amother

Violet

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 10:51 am

amother wrote:

Here are some hugs. Yes you shouldn't be so jealous but at the same Time, it's HARD. It's not like he gets a bigger cookie than you. It's he got a whole tray, didn't leave you a crumb, and when you voice anything mom (imamother) yells at you to be grateful you had dinner (childhood). He did too!
You don't live nearby to shop in the pantry, borrow the car or have mom provide baby sitting or just because gifts. You are out of state as well but not supported or helped and it is hard.

Hugs.

SRS

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 1:39 pm

the world's best mom wrote:

However, I do think you should work on yourself to stop being jealous. I don't believe your parents are doing anything wrong. I don't think they should withhold money from their son who needs it just because they also have a daughter who would like to have it too. You make enough money to live off of, so you don't need it like he does.

The frum world has an incredible skill in creating dependence and feeding it.

amother

Chocolate

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 4:34 am

I live in Israel. So does my brother. He's in Kollel and his wife babysits a couple of babies in her home in the mornings. They have 10 children.
I work extremely hard. I put in 50+ hours a week with no vacation time. This has been my schedule for 14 years now. I was back to work the day after I got home from the hospital with my baby. I have 5 children. My husband teaches (also about 50 hours a week) but, sadly, the school (American) has no money to pay so they are months behind in salary. Wouldn't it be nice to get a little gift from Mom and Dad so that I can take a day off/maternity leave/not always be a shmattah?
Yet, my brother is supported, and I'm not.
I'm not upset or jealous.
The bottom line is
1. He needs it more then I do
2. My parents can do what they want with their money
If the reason they were supporting him and not me was simply because they liked him better, that would still be their choice.
I have another sibling in NY, also with 10 children. They both work but who can afford 10 tuitions in NY? So I'm the only child not supported and I begrudge no one. They need it more then I do. (And needing money isn't a fun place to be either. Being supported with the strings that are always attached isn't a rocking party.)

water_bear88

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 5:10 am

amother wrote:

How is that legal? I thought the minimum here was 6 weeks maternity leave, and that's only if your husband takes the other 8 as paternity leave in your place.