100K for a shidduch in Israel?????

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 11:58 am

amother wrote:

I would say 90 percent of the Israelis that are in America are collecting for their kids downpayment. They dont knock on your day saying I need money for kids downpayment. They come collecting for the wedding. In Israel the downpayment is a wedding expense.

Call me Scrooge but I wouldn't contribute to a wedding nor would I expect anyone to contribute to my wedding or any family member's wedding.

You have a wedding that you can afford and afford might mean very small and money used for other more important things.

But to expect strangers to fund discretionary expenses that many people don't do for themselves is chutzpahdik and wrong because it deprives the truly needy of money.

happybeingamom

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 12:38 pm

amother wrote:

Us Jews have been doing Hachnasos Kallah for a long time.

I assume in Birchas HaShachar you say Elu Devorim talks about Hachnasos Kallah there.

amother

Blush

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 12:47 pm

this is my way of looking at collectors:

when someone knocks on my door for hachnasas kallah or any other cause, I try to give him something for many reasons, heres a few:
1-usually my kids are around, and I want my kids to see how I give tzedaka.
2-I don't start making cheshbonas about if he really needs it or whatever. that's not my business. if hashem sent him to my door, its an opportunity for me to give tzedaka. and sometimes I tell myself : hashem you know if this is a needy person or not, I don't. but you also see how I am ready to help a fellow jew. its two separate ideas.
3-its a great investment, you give tzedaka, you earn double.
ect.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 1:18 pm

Tablepoetry wrote:

Newlyweds dont automatically buy in Israel. Most people I know rent for a few yrs first. A very small minority do indeed live with their parents for a while.
(I am talking Israelis here, I barely know any anglos in israel)

I agree with Table here. I live in a yishuv. We bh just bought an apartment (after 10 years of marriage) and the majority of families who bought in our project are israeli sabras. Some with one or two kids and others with 6 or 7 kids. Nobody was living at home with their parents until they bought. And there are so many rentals on this yishuv and the majority are young couples, some anglo and a looot of sabras.
Not everyone buys apartments right away. And another thing, about secular people living at home till they are married, I also have never heard of that, not saying it doesnt happen, but I have chiloni cousins who moved out after the army and live either on their own or with room mates (or with boy friend or girl friend) but not at home.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 1:21 pm

And this is why I am so happy that our yishuv has a policy about people coming knowcking on doors for tzedaka. There is a vaad in the gush and then each yishuv rav gets to decide as well, if the reason the person is coming to the yishuv asking for money is a valid one or not. If the person has no papers telling of his/her reason, we are not supposed to give. And I dont.

Another mom

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 4:44 pm

Tablepoetry wrote:

Byisrael, where are apartments going for 600 k?? I would think there are very few in that price range, probably 2 bedroom dumps in undesirable areas.

Maybe they mean 600k is the down payment. In that case, who pays the rest? The woman works? They rent it out???

amother

Smokey

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 5:20 pm

amother wrote:

I assume by discretionary expenses you are talking about tziduka collected for jewelry for the sisters and mothers of the couple.

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 5:37 pm

amother wrote:

I assume by discretionary expenses you are talking about tziduka collected for jewelry for the sisters and mothers of the couple.

I am not singling out wedding expenses.

I define discretionary expenses as those which are not necessary for health and welfare of a person.I am not so cold hearted that I begrudge toys for children or think poor people should be in the work house.

I think most people who run a household have a good understanding of what discretionary expenses are and run their budgets accordingly.

Those expenses which most people don't spend unless they have extra money and then they decide what to spend it on because they don't have unlimited money. Jewelry is generally viewed as discretionary spending.

There are people who are truly needy and a down payment for a house or a desire for a fancy wedding or expensive jewelry or clothing does not mean other people should pay do it. Money for that, in my opinion is better used fr those who need the necessities or to,fund community welfare like schools or whatever. But not so that individuals should have more than what many hard working people are able to afford who don't shnorrr.

I read in the thread that the house is viewed as a good investment. By that logic why shouldn't I be able to beg money to get money to fund a mutual fund account?

There are many on this forum who don't own a home but wouldn't dream of asking strangers for the purchase price. I am just not understanding the sense of entitlement.

Maya

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 5:44 pm

amother wrote:

That's nice.
Let me ask you. How many times have you given a substantial amount, just to be pestered and badgered repeatedly for more because the collector felt you didn't give enough?

Come back and post after that has happened to you many, many times. Tell us if your way of looking at collectors has changed, or you're still feeling so sweet about it.

Orchid

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 5:48 pm

happybeingamom wrote:

Us Jews have been doing Hachnasos Kallah for a long time.

I assume in Birchas HaShachar you say Elu Devorim talks about Hachnasos Kallah there.

Hachnassas kalla does not mean expensive sheitels, jewelry, matching gowns for sisters, a delicious shmorg, etc. It means an amount sufficient to buy household items for the new couple as they establish a new house.

naturalmom5

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 5:59 pm

amother wrote:

That's beautiful
But am I right in assuming you live OOT
If 20 ppl came to your door daily what would your atitude be

happybeingamom

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 6:10 pm

Orchid wrote:

I never said it did but the amother I quoted said this

"I wouldn't contribute to a wedding"

Helping someone get married, helping them set up a household etc. is hachnasos kallah and it is a very important Tzedokah.

The materialism that our present generation lives with is a different issue then Hachnasos Kallah.

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 6:24 pm

happybeingamom wrote:

You are taking my comment out of context.

This thread is about contributing a large amount of money for discretionary expenses that are not what most people consider to be necessities.

It is entirely possible to get married for a small sum of money and set up a household for a small sum of money as well. This thread is about down payments for a house and presumably a large wedding.

My parents didn't get married in a lavish ceremony and are married under Judaic law. They had the required household items but they made do until they could afford more.

It is the level of what people are deeming to be required and worthy of being the object of my charity that I find entitled.

pause

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 11:15 pm

amother wrote:

It is beyond my comprehension why anyone would contribute towards the down payment on someone else's home.

There are many people who would love to own a home. Why are those who are chutzpahdik more worthy than those who live within their financial means?

If someone asked me for a contribution for such a thing, I would laugh.

If someone doesn't have rent money because of an emergency or food or needs medical care that's different as there but for fortune go any one and I give generously and would hope others do as well.

But a house as an expectation that strangers should fund? My mind boggles.

And even if the person giving has lots of money, such money certainly could be used for schools or for those who lack essentials or any number of causes which benefit the larger community or those who are truly needy.

They don't. They ask for hachnossas kalla.

pause

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 11:18 pm

Maya wrote:

A dollar should suffice for the purposes of the amother you quoted.

notshanarishona

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 11:49 pm

So many over generalizations here..
There are many people who go to collect for basic health and other needs. There are many very poor people here for reasons unrelated to learning and there are many many people who don't get an apartment. That is generally if you want a "top" long time learning boy.
[90% of Israeli's are not doing the kollel lifestyle. Under 10% of Israel is Chareidi.]
Even with both parent's working, most people don't have extra money because salaries here are not meant to support families of 10+ kids.

byisrael

Fri, Dec 25 2015, 4:01 am

When did this thread spin off?

It started by asking if 100k NIS is needed to get a shidduch in the chareidi community. It is.

Then someone started on ranting on meshulachim raising money for hachnassas kallah.
What makes you think they are not raising money for a simple wedding? Think one of the chessed halls, gemach dress, basic household necessities, a cheap second hand sheital.

The meshulachim are generally the poverty stricken charedim who are at the end of thier rope. It is very degrading to knock on doors and ask for money. It is not something that people choose to do as an ideal- it is out of desperation. You don't need to give them anything.

But please have SOME compassion for people who struggling.

The chareidi people I know fund the down-payment by taking loans. My parent are the exception- no the rule. And they did not go badgering people - they asked the people that they helped in the past help them. Because of our cicumstances they new they could not add an additional monthly expense without depriving my siblings.

We are very grateful for the people who did so. I realize this makes me and my husband entitled self spoiled brats.

Tablepoetry

Fri, Dec 25 2015, 4:06 am

byisrael wrote:

Perhaps you are right, but it's a pity there's no way to check whether the money is really going towards a chessed hall or a downpayment.
Maybe the meshulachim should ask for vouchers to be filled for the chessed hall. I am sure most people would be happy to contribute to that.

Tablepoetry

Fri, Dec 25 2015, 4:12 am

byisrael wrote:

When did this thread spin off?

It started by asking if 100k NIS is needed to get a shidduch in the chareidi community. It is.

.

I'm curious. The thread started off, if I recall correctly, by asking if the GIRL's parents needed to cough up that money for a shidduch.
In your experience in the charedi world, do only the parents of girls need to pay to get their daughters married, or does the boy's side need to contribute the same amount?